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Eyewitness Says Feds Ambushed Bundys, 100 Shots Fired at Passengers, Lavoy Finicum Killed With ‘Hands Up’

Patrick Henningsen
21st Century Wire
UPDATE: 1-30-2016

Last night, the standoff at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge outside Burns, Oregon took a rather ugly turn which resulted in one man shot dead and another wounded by federal agents.

The latest incident took place as two vehicles carrying protesters, led by Ammon Bundy, were en route to a community meeting in the nearby town of John Day in Oregon.

According to numerous mainstream media reports and local media outlet Oregon Live, ‘federal sources’ are telling the media that only “3 shots were fired”, but a new eye witness testimony by one of the vehicle’s passengers tells a very different story.

While the mainstream media is still referring to the event as “a shoot-out”, according to this latest eye witness account at the scene – no shots were fired by vehicle passengers.

According to eyewitness Victoria Sharp, 18 yrs old, from Kansas, who was a passenger in the same truck driven by Arizona rancher Robert ‘Lavoy’ Finicum, along with Ryan Bundy, Ryan Payne and Shawna Cox – dozens of federal vehicles and countless agents were waiting for the group, pre-positioned at a point along the isolated rural Highway 395, before intercepting the group and detaining 8 persons, including brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy, who were booked into Multnomah County Jail early this morning.

Sharp confirmed that the passengers never drew weapons and attempted to get out of their vehicles before federal agents fired “at least 120 shots altogether” at the vehicle carrying her party.

RELATED: ‘Federal Government Escalated the Violence in Oregon’

Federal agents fired their first shots at passenger and militia leader, Ryan Payne, as he attempted to make contact with the agents by sticking his head and hands out of the window, at which point Payne got back inside the vehicle.

Payne then exited the truck and was detained before driver Finicum advanced the vehicle further down the road before sliding into a snow bank on the side of the road.

A second vehicle, a Jeep with passengers including Ammon Bundy, had already been stopped by authorities, with its all passengers taken into custody with no one harmed.

A third vehicle driving approximately one mile ahead at the front of the convoy, carrying Sharp’s mother and young siblings, was allowed to pass through the police roadblocks without incident.

1-Oregon-Standoff
Finicum then attempted to drive around the next federal road block, but lost control of the vehicle before careening into snow piled on the road’s hard shoulder.

After crashing into the snow bank on the side of the highway, the driver, 54 yr old Arizona resident, Lavoy Finicum (photo, above), then exited the vehicle, visibly upset and with his hands in the air, before being gunned down by federal agents. Finicum was walking with his hands in the air, daring federal agents, “Just shoot me! Just shoot me” – at which point the agents shot him dead. The witness testimony indicates that his hands were still in the air.

Numerous ‘red dots’ from lasers could be seen pointed on the passengers by federal marksmen, in what was described by this witness as an “ambush” by federal authorities. Sharps said, “I had 20 lasers on me when I got out of the car.”

She also confirmed that Ryan Bundy was shot and wounded in the arm by federal agents was shot while still inside the truck.

Federal forces then followed-up by firing CS tear gas rounds around the vehicle, apparently in an attempt to further disable the remaining passengers.

At least 40 federal vehicles, as well as many armed federal agents including some seen emerging from the surrounding forest along the highway, should leave little doubt as to the scale and nature of the operation.

Listen to Ms. Sharp’s harrowing testimony here:


.
According to local media outlet Oregon Live reports: “The  highway was blocked for a 40-mile stretch between Burns and John Day. Police were stationed near Seneca, a small city of 200 south of John Day, with long guns. They said they didn’t know how long the roadblock would be in place. Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer was there.”

IMPORTANT NOTE (UPDATE 1-30-16): According to this recent report by Pedro Quintana from Central Oregon local affiliate News Channel 21, Sheriff Palmer was not at the federal roadblock and had no prior knowledge of the FBI ambush of the Bundy convoy. According to the chat session relayed in Pedro Quintana’s report, Palmer was asked in an online chat, “Did you witness Lavoy shooting, or no?”, to which Palmer replies, “NO… The shooting from what I hear was close to 4 and I heard of it at about 5:45pm.” News 21continued:

“Palmer responded he had no knowledge of anything about the plans or who was coming to the public meeting. He went on to say that the “FBI and Oregon State Police know me, they shared nothing with me and they know I wouldn’t have allowed it.”

Earlier mainstream media reports that Palmer was present at the FBI roadblock would lead Bundy supporters to believe that Palmer had betrayed the Bundys and Lavoy Finicum. One the main sources, if not the main source of the original Sheriff Palmer controversy appears to be none other than Oregon Live staff writer Les Zaitz who has slipped-in this key piece of line into his report which which says:

“They said they didn’t know how long the roadblock would be place. Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer was there.”

Not surprisingly, this has set-off a virtual backlash online against the Grant County Sheriff, as evidenced by the following screen shot of Google search link found here:

Palmer-Godlike Productions
Is this a case of media dirty tricks by Oregon Live? Certainly, Oregon Live’s coverage of Burns events has been skewed from the beginning, and have been running character assassination pieces against Malheur occupiers in a effort to discredit the protest. Sheriff Palmer is clearly on record as being sympathetic to the Hammond Ranch protest and had recently opened up a constructive dialogue with the Bundys and occupiers from Malheur Wildlife Refuge. If Pedro Quintana’s News 21 report is indeed accurate, then one might conclude that Oregon Live put out a piece of disinformation, likely designed to further divide the protest movement and create dissension in militia and activist ranks.

However, until Sheriff Glenn Palmer comes out and issues clear statement declaring where he was – and where he wasn’t, then people will continue to speculate what really happened.
(END OF UPDATE)

Conflicting Accounts

Reporter Les Zaitz from Oregon Live, a key source of mainstream media information from the Refuge protest, did not give prominence to Victoria Sharp’s account in his article, but instead chose to lead with and highlight the secondhand account of the other vehicle’s passenger Mark McConnell who claimed that unarmed victim Lavoy Finicum “charged at law enforcement” before being shot. Zaitz’s article even admits that McConnell’s vehicle was at least 200 yards behind the truck driven by Finicum.

Incredibly, Oregonian Zaitz appears to favor McConnell’s account on the basis that his account has “matched accounts from law enforcement sources.” McConnell issued his version of events after being released from law enforcement custody, where he spoke for 2 hours with federal agents.

Tabloid news site Raw Story also ran with a similar narrative with a deceptive headline that read “Eyewitnesses knock down conspiracy theories about LaVoy Finicum…“, referring to secondhand accounts by McConnell and colleague, Melvin Lee.

As it turns out, Mark McConnell did not actually see the shooting, and instead had ‘pieced together’ his account, as evidenced by his own statement later posted online:

…”going off of what Shawna Cox and Ryan Payne were saying, which were in the vehicle, um, Visually, I seen the truck take off, you know, now any time someone takes off in a vehicle away from law enforcement after they exercise a stop, it’s typically considered an act of aggression and foolish. Payne said while they were sitting there and they were clearing my vehicle that him and LeVoy had a heated discussion…”

“…but he took off they had to chase him, and from what Shawna Cox was saying… from inside of his truck that when he exited the vehicle… he charged after law enforcement….”

“What I do know to be true, from what Payne said and what Shawna said taken pieces here and pieces there and from what I witnessed, um, I didn’t see the shooting, um, he was not on his knees, he was not, none of that non sense, that was a miscommunication on somebody else’s part but he went after em, he charged em.”

Here, McConnell is, in effect, issuing a proxy statement on behalf of Victoria Sharp’s fellow passengers, Shawn Cox and Ryan Payne. This is hardly admissible, as both Cox and Payne are currently in federal custody and are not able to verify the accuracy of McConnell reiteration. And yet, mainstream media outlets are propping-up McConnell’s account, while minimizing Sharp’s.

After speculating about the shooting, McConnell then says, “… I didn’t see it, and I’m not going to speculate on it.”

McConnell is said to have been driving in the rear vehicle with Ammon Bundy and his private security, Brian Cavalier.

SEE ALSO: Activists or Terrorist? The Truth About the Oregon Standoff

UPDATE 1-28-2016: On Wednesday evening, CNN International released a report based on an “anonymous government source” claiming that Finicum was killed by federal agents because he was “reaching towards his waistband.” The Washington Post then re-spun the story, and rather incredibly – is relying on the very same secondhand story presented by Mark McConnell, in a desperate attempt to prop-up the government’s version of events:

“In the moments before he was shot by authorities Tuesday afternoon, Finicum led a high-speed getaway attempt. He then reached for his waistband, prompting authorities to open fire, according to a CNN report.

The report, which cites anonymous law enforcement officials but has not been confirmed by The Washington Post, is corroborated by a statement from an occupier who said he was traveling with Finicum at the time of the traffic stop.”

The fact the media have chosen to label this incident as a “traffic stop” indicates an obvious agenda designed to minimize the obvious – that this was a pre-planned, elaborate ambush by the FBI and Oregon State Police.

This same unnamed “source” cited by CNN is also told the network that the incident was indeed captured on video by the FBI, but that authorities “have not decided whether or not the release the video.” (see more breaking updates on this development below)

See a full breakdown CNN, Washington Post and the government narrative here.

Federal Escalation

This shocking turn of events comes just days after Oregon governor Kate Brown issued what some might consider to be a veiled threat to the protesters and militia, saying that the federal government “must move quickly to end the occupation and hold all of the wrongdoers accountable.”

Reports last week indicated that the governor had personally written the White House and President Obama, which specifically addressed Attorney General Loretta Lynch and FBI director James Comey, in which Brown expressed her outrage that Harney County and the state of Oregon was not being recognized for its ‘collaborative achievements’, but rather for “outsiders seeking to exploit and manipulate a local matter for their own agenda.”

According to the FBI’s press release, arrested individuals include:

Ammon Edward Bundy, 40, of Emmett, Idaho
Ryan C. Bundy, 43, of Bunkerville, Nevada
Brian Cavalier, 44, of Bunkerville, Nevada
Shawna Cox, 59, of Kanab, Utah
Ryan Waylen Payne, 32, of Anaconda, Montana
Joseph Donald O’Shaughnessy, 45, of Cottonwood, Arizona

After the federal operation on Highway 395, in a separate incident back at the Wildlife Refuge, YouTube and internet radio personality, Peter Santilli, 50, of Cincinnati, Ohio, approached the venue and walked towards federal agents before being taken into custody.

Those still in detention are scheduled to be arraigned at 1:30 p.m. Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Portland.

According to reports, FBI agents in Phoenix also “made a probable cause arrest of Jon Eric Ritzheimer, age 32, on a federal charge related to the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Harney County, Oregon.”

Jon Ritzheimer, another controversial YouTube personality and former US Marine, appears to have left the Malheur Refuge right before the federal operation to apprehend the protesters, when he returned to his home in Peoria, Arizona.

Back at the Refuge protest site, the FBI are said to be negotiating with remaining 8 to 10 occupiers inside, with reports that most women and minors have already left the site.

Three weeks ago, Finicum, who become the protest’s media spokesperson, made a prophetic statement on camera saying that, “There are things more important than your life, and freedom is one of them.” Watch:

UPDATE 1-28-2016: Any public distrust or skepticism of the federal authorities would immediately be dispelled by speed release of all video footage (with dozens of agents and surveillance, there should have been more than one video feed taken, including body and gun sight cameras) of the event. Whether or not, and how fast this will happen remains to be seen.

UPDATE 1-29-2016 at 01:30PM ET: Due to public pressure and intense speculation about the events of Tuesday evening, and also because of the YouTube recording of eye witness 18 yr old Victoria Sharp, the FBI has released the unedited aerial video footage from Tuesday evening’s incident which took place along Highway 395 here.

According to the official FBI statement: “We feel that it is necessary to show the whole thing unedited in the interest of transparency.”

The FBI video entitled, Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016″, does show the victim Lavoy Finicum exiting the truck awkwardly in at least two feet of snow, and he clearly does not “charge towards” the SWAT team, and his hands are clearly held high above his head as he exits his truck when confronted by a SWAT team, before being shot multiple times by marksmen and falling in the snow. Also, the scale and size of this operation is very evident by the footage, and the apprehension of the protesters was not the result of a mere “traffic stop” as erroneously characterized in multiple mainstream media reports.

On its own, this FBI drone footage would appear to support previous government and media claims by CNN, Washington Post and others that the victim was indeed “reaching towards his waistband” which gave federal and state police justification to unleash deadly force. However, it is still not completely clear from this aerial footage whether or not Finicum was holstered (he is said to normally carry a gun on the right hip, but FBI are claiming he had a 9mm gun in his inside left breast pocket), but also whether or not he lowered his arms before, or after he was shot multiple times. For example, if Finicum had his hands in the air and was then was shot in the abdomen first, then any man’s natural reaction would be to then lower his hand(s) and clutch the wound. Additionally, if any shots were fired, even in the vicinity, then confusion could have ensued which might have prompted Finicum to reach for his weapon. Either way, it is impossible to make any such a forensic determination without a corresponding audio track  which would help to determine if any shots were fired before Finicum’s hand(s) could be seen lowering.

WARNING: Images depict violence which some viewers may find disturbing. Watch here:


.
STAY TUNED FOR FURTHER UPDATES AT 21WIRE

READ MORE OREGON STANDOFF NEWS AT: 21st Century Wire Oregon Standoff Files



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  • Angelo

    A great interview of Robert “LaVoy” Finicum, (father of eleven children) who was shot in the face and murdered early this morning, and Cliven Bundy conducted last October by Richard Sacks of Lostartsradio(dot)com.

    Richard Sacks’ SHOW #41 – 10/17/15 – Bryan Terry and LaVoy Finicum with Cliven Bundy

    SHOW #41 – 10/17/15 – Bryan Terry and LaVoy Finicum with Cliven Bundy

    Courage and Honesty in State Government with Dr. Bryan Terry, and
    Bringing Freedom Back to America with LaVoy Finicum and Cliven Bundy

    Lost Arts Radio Show on Saturday 10/17/15

    Listen online: http://www.lostartsradio.com

    Bryan Terry

    On this super special Lost Arts Radio show, we focus on freedom as a
    primary requirement for health. While Lost Arts Radio remains committed
    to exposing criminal activity under color of law in government because
    it is antithetical to human and societal health, we also believe it is
    imperative to recognize and support individuals who are in government
    offices for the right reasons. Reasons like reminding us all that the
    legitimate function of government is the protection of our individual
    freedoms and rights, not controlling and surveilling our personal lives.
    Lost Arts Radio continues the search for outstanding patriots in
    government office (send us your nominations for this recognition), and
    this week is pleased to present Dr. Bryan Terry, state representative in
    the Tennessee legislature, who is working to honor his Oath of Office
    and protecting the God-given rights and freedoms of his constituents. We
    hope that our visit this week with Dr. Bryan Terry will inspire other
    Americans to get involved in the effort to bring government back into
    line with its true purpose in America. We are grateful to Dr. Bryan
    Terry for the spirit of his work in the Tennessee legislature, and
    showing us by his example that it is possible for individual citizens
    with the right motivation to get into office and help heal America with
    the messages of freedom, mutual respect and Constitutional government.

    LaVoy Finicum

    The second half of this week’s show will be to honor individual
    private citizens who are willing to put their lives and livelihoods on
    the line to bring personal freedom back to America and who realize the
    priority of protecting and defending the U.S. Constitution against all
    enemies foreign and domestic, just as our elected leaders swear to do,
    even though so many break their oaths immediately upon taking office.
    Lost Arts Radio is honored to have as our guests this week LaVoy Finicum
    and Cliven Bundy. LaVoy and Cliven are ranchers in Arizona and Nevada,
    respectively, who are taking a stand against illegal activity by the
    federal government, so that others may follow their example in demanding
    that the government servants who work for us all actually follow the
    Constitution, which they swear to obey.

    Many of us who did hear about the now famous standoff that occurred
    at the Bundy ranch between federal officials and local citizens may not
    understand in detail the issues that inspired so many to risk their
    lives in standing up for the truth. And still fewer may be fully aware
    of how those same principles are driving others like LaVoy Finicum to
    stand up and continue the work required to bring back freedom and
    Constitutional government to America, and by example, to the rest of the
    world.

    Cliven Bundy

    LaVoy Finicum and Cliven Bundy deserve not only our appreciation, but
    also our active support of their efforts to return freedom to America,
    and putting the same principles into action in our everyday lives.

    Join host Richard Sacks every week for fascinating discussions,
    amazing guests and useful information that you will not want to miss. We
    are on the air worldwide every week, Saturdays at 6pm Pacific / 9pm
    Eastern. You can find us at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lostartsradio, and all our archives are there too (as well as YouTube and iTunes). Visit our website at http://www.lostartsradio.com for links to archives, our articles, educational resources, and other features you will enjoy and learn from.

    Our show archives are also available on YouTube at
    youtube.lostartsradio.com. Please tell your friends so everyone can
    benefit from the unique information and guests we plan to bring you
    every week. Thanks for being part of our family and the effort to build a
    better world.

    Richard Sacks, host Lost Arts Radio

    http://www.lostartsradio.com

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lostartsradio

    youtube.lostartsradio.com

    itunes.lostartsradio.com

  • Vernon

    https://www.cpp.edu/…/geological-sciences/docs/JJBruns.pdf

    http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0620a/report.pdf

    bundys ranch is in clark county here is the assay

    17.5 trillion U.S. dollars

    multiply 17.5 million tons by 2000 and then by 500 dollars per pound, Given to canadian firm Calico backed by standard and poors and Nia in china there is enough uranium there to erase the national debt,

    And that isnt all of the resources in the lands they are sequestering from mexico to canada, along the continental divide, Thats one deposit in malheur county the America is in debt bullshit? the america is failing bullshit , there is enough mineral sources in the lands they are stealing to end american poverty.

    http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1812/report.pdf In idaho county the BLM is taking a similar stance against small miners , my brother sent a 5 gallon bucket of ore to an assayer who pulled out 27 ounces of PGM metals.

    Rhodium was the primary metal at 650 an ounce so do the math on tonnage

    And americans are starving because everyone is coerced into kissing the medias ass as well as bankers and corporation

    http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1740b/report.pdf Malheur county, 17.5 million tons of uranium.

    • Tim Hayes

      Wouldn’t flooding the market in an attempt to sell 17.5 mn tons of raw minerals necessarily drop the price per ounce? Even if you were able to keep the inventory surplus secret for sometime, and sell in smaller quantities in opaque markets… eventually the data would show and the price would steadily plummet. That’d still be plenty of money, but I’m not sure how selling one commodity would “erase’ the national debt in one fell swoop. Also, you’d have to tear up the land something good. It’d take time to mine all that, and in that time the buying power of an ounce would drop the way oil did, to catastrophic levels for the players. Maybe I am missing something here.

      Another aspect that seems common sense to me, is that any politician who got wind of this would have done exactly what you proposed had it been a profitable idea. They’d secure all future elections by wiping their state debt clean, and would become rock-stars for giving the nation access to those profits – the fact that no experts, politicians, etc.. have done what you’re proposing all from public info. leads me to believe it’s not as cut and dry as you’re making it out to be.

      If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

      • Vernon

        Thats not an argument, the current value is 500 per pound , removing it and refining it would take time and likely not affect the market, do you think it just magically refines itself and extracts itself?

        • Marty Holden

          no vernon. You’re full of crap. It’s called a futures market and the price would decline as soon as you secured rights to mine it on any major scale.

          • Vernon

            no youre full of crap, it takes time to dig and refine , that being said it wouldnt hit the market, it would go into crooked peoples coffers who are manipulating commodities. where the hell do you people get your info? And it being uranium would go to power plants and nuclear bombs so you left wing terrorists can bash anyone with reason and sense. Conversely in an honest market a lot if small miners could make a decent living but their throats are cut by fear mongers like you.

          • varlog

            not a big market for uranium and 17.5 million pounds won’t hit the market all at once.

          • Vernon

          • Dr. Dan

            Fox news pushing an elaborate conspiracy theory, Yeah no surprise here LOL !!

          • Vernon

            now look whos looking like a conspiracy creep, youll back the news as long as it supports your views though

          • Vernon

            That isnt the only source of that information dan

      • [email protected]

        Not if you sell in contract. High volume buyers will get good prices, but that just increases the desire to purchase in higher volume

      • reggiec

        You are missing the point. It is not the price of any mineral or other natural resource that may be present in the area. It is the government’s attempt to gain control of the areas and remove them from private ownership or prior contractual lease agreements.

        Charging two ranchers with terrorism for starting backfires to stop fires threatening their cattle and private property is not terrorism.

        It is a government intimidating anyone that opposes their never ending thirst for control.

    • Gunner Butler

      Vernon, your well intentioned post is undermined by the fact that the Clark county citation you posted regarding the “boss” mine is more than 100 miles from the Bundy ranch. nobody benefits from misleading posts.

      • Vernon

        You need to make a close comparison of where the assays were done and the maps, singling out one mine is really amateurish

        • Vernon
          • Vernon
          • Steve Gibson

            You are making facts up to fit your narrative. Nice spin attempt. The stuff you referenced is not near Bundys place. Telling the same lie over and over does not make it magically become reality to fit your obviously biased narrative.

          • Vernon

            lol anyone can see what you did there, you took what you assumed would be my response and inverted it in an attempt to discredit the facts. So i’ll give you my real response, youre a liar. http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines-2016/blm-burns-land-unsupervised-burn-ranchers-home-and-cattle-alive-video

          • Darren Johnson

            Vernon, you need to quit while you are behind.

          • Vernon

            you need to troll someone else kid

          • Darren Johnson

            As you fall further behind. I probably have many years on you, youngster.

          • Vernon

            says the immature person trolling me, hey but dont let me stop you from showing the world your passive aggressive determination and witlessness.

          • Darren Johnson

            Telling you to quit when you are behind when you are spouting debunked conspiracy theories is neither “passive aggressive” nor immature. You should seek help not only for your mental issues, but also for your vocabulary.

          • Vernon

            for starters you dont tell me shit , can you get that? secondly learn what the fuck debate and conversation mean. YOU DONT TELL ME SHIT, that video isnt proof he even had a gun its just damning. You are in no position to give me any orders, do you understand?

          • Vernon

            Youre not having a conversation youre just being a pushy little bitch, and on that note im smiling as i flip your dumb ass off. fuck you. Let me be clear, I dont bow to mankind and none are greater than each other to have the power to give orders so youre just a self expressed megalomaniac strutting his shit around anonymously like he thinks hes got balls to warrant it when its immature idiocy at best. Big fat fuck you chief, learn how to have a conversation instead of make ape noises.

          • Darren Johnson

            Dude, chill, you are seriously over-sensitive. You sure read a lot into what I said that simply was not there, perhaps you are revealing more of your own issues. I suggest you seek professional mental health care, you clearly need it. As for “immature”, your choice of words and behavior show that the problem is yours, not anyone else’s. You know, maybe if you calmed down and sought psychiatric care you would reply to others instead of merely talking to yourself.

          • Laura Lee

            Darren…You think you’re God. No one cares what you think. You’re just a man…and you’re in no position to judge anyone. You’re just a really nasty arrogant person… and no one cares what you think.

          • Darren Johnson

            Funny… you accuse me of “psychoanalizing” others, yet you claim to know what I think. How ironic. I’m not the one that c hose to react in such an angry manner, that was him. As for you, who cares what you think, other than as comic relief?

          • Darren Johnson

            Oh my, did you stomp your widdle feet when you wrote that? Looks like you don’t know what either of those mean, given your obviously angry reaction.

          • Laura Lee

            Dr. Psychiatrist God Complex Darren Johnson,

            Go psychoanalyze yourself. You’re not God… you’re no one special… no one cares what you think. You’re a troll…not God.

          • Darren Johnson

            Since I never made such a claim, you must have an active imagination.

          • Grandhuff

            This is what it’s all about, and the Clintons have been behind it for years. It’s not just uranium; gold and other valuable resources are located in all the western states that the Federal government wants. So they are trying to run off the ranchers, farmers and miners. Here is the link:
            https://www.intellihub.com/clinton-foundation-payoffs-promised-hammond-ranch-other-publically-owned-lands-russia/

    • Almost Handy

      Sorry, but the first USGS link is NOT the Bundy Ranch which is just outside Mesquite NEVADA.
      The land referenced is south of Las Vegas just outside of Mesquite CALIFORNIA.

    • Dexter Hexter

      Surprises me NONE!

    • Reid Reasor

      Thanks Vernon

    • SteveD

      A Simple Way to Pay Off the National Debt:

      What’s the difference between a dollar bill and a Treasury (federal debt)?

      Nothing except a little bit of interest.

      A dollar bill is a liability of the Federal Government. Just read what it says on that green piece of paper in your wallet: Federal Reserve “note.”

      A Treasury is a liability of the Federal Government, too, but it pays some interest and has a term (2yrs, 5yrs, 10yrs, etc.).

      The federal government can issue all the dollar bills it wants.

      The federal government can issue all the Treasury Securities (federal debt) it wants.

      The best way to think of it is the difference between a checking account and a savings account. Your net worth doesn’t change if you have your money in a checking account as opposed to having it in a savings account.

      How do we pay off the debt?

      The U.S. government can issue dollars to replace the Treasuries. It would be the equivalent of shifting the money from the savings account to the checking account.

      Very simple.

      So why are we having all this debate about the national debt and solvency?

      It’s a non-issue.

      • Vernon

        i’ll bet money it wont do shit for the national debt, none of the mining areas they have sold have done anything for the debt these punks created in office, so yeah try again.

        • SteveD

          The so-called “federal debt” is:

          A. Unlike personal debt,

          B. Not a burden on the government or on taxpayers, and

          C. Is an interest-paying asset for the economy.

          When you lend to the US government, you can buy a T-bond, T-note or T-bill, that is, you can make a deposit in your T-security account at the Federal Reserve Bank. The total of those deposits is $19 trillion, or said another way, the total US debt is $19 trillion.

          The US debt is nothing more than the total of those deposits in the FRB.

          Buying a T-bond is exactly like buying a bank CD, and having your T-bond “paid off” is exactly like having your bank CD paid off. In both cases, a bank (FRB or private bank) debits your bank savings account and credits your checking account. NO ADDITIONAL DOLLARS NEEDED…

          The federal “debt” is simply the total of deposits in T-security accounts at the world’s safest bank, the FRB. Some problem, huh? (No, YOU try again.)

          • Vernon

            They have the leases, calico and Uranium1, the uranium is as good as theirs, whats the news said? How has the stock market responded?Id bet you a grand it wont do anything for the debt in this country if i had a grand to bet. You just dont realize how these people work.

    • Dr. Dan

      Great yet another bunch of while conspiracy theories, This ranks right up there with the moon landing conspiracy theory.

      • Vernon

        either youre a fed or youre just grossly ill informed. either way i present facts and you present mountains of empty mouth flapping, so you 0, me 1 for every factual post. Cant tell you how many times ive made PHD’s look stupid bro, and that was with a GED and a cooking cert as my highest grade. Up to a bachelors of science now and a shit tone more researched than then.

        • Dr. Dan

          The only one who looks stupid is you “Bro” , This is nothing more than yet another whacky conspiracy theory “Bro”, Seems like you might want to loosen up that tin foil hat a bit as it’s cutting off the circulation to your brain “bro”

          As for your “facts” please what you have is conjecture consisting of nothing more than a publicly available geology report backed by subjective personal opinion and circular logic.

          like I said this ranks right up there with the moon landing conspiracy whackos and the 911 whackos. But hey thanks for the entertainment, Oh and since I bruised your ego I eagerly await your mental meltdown “Bro”

          • Vernon

            like every troll before you opinion and no counter evidence, plenty of evidence on my side none on yours, just rule 5 of saul alinksy’s. socratic method is on my side till you do more than lip flap

          • Vernon

            bro

          • Vernon

            or did you throw out the rules of debate for the rules for radicals and think it was an obvious win win? in that case they should revoke your phd as liberalism has turned your mind into Swiss cheese ,,,,bro

          • Dr. Dan

            Once again if you could prove your case you wouldn’t need to resort to ad hominem attacks.

            The problem is you have no evidence, that’s why you are resorting to attacking anyone who’s not naive enough to buy into your circular logic.

          • Vernon

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7-Ljmu-HoY&feature=youtube_gdata_player another alinsky tactic is start with an ad hom and try to reverse the attack as if i were the first when i only met your attack with my own so anyway troll boy , lemme pummel you with facts and make sure you try to keep up because i realize you dont have to have much of an IQ to have a phd.

          • Vernon
          • Vernon
          • Vernon
          • Vernon
          • Vernon

            youre not that fuckin smart dan, no amount of liberal mind fucking will get my claws off a focus on the facts andf the points and you can ad lib rules to sway public opinion just because you think if it sounds reasonable it is reasonable when its mind fucking garbage. Youre at a loss because you dont know the breadth of my self study and its very dangerous to your self image to think I am at some level quantifiable by my social profiles. By your words youre an easy mark. Alinksy hegelian tactician maybe even some bernays, Gustav le bon , wifred trotter , modern derivative, which is nothing but piss to a free intelligent mind thats escaped the narrative and paradigm. You need to realize some of the metaphors in the dreams of enoch actually have substantial meaning, and that when youre faced with an animal thats become a man and you havent, youre out of your league.

          • Vernon

            and If for one second calling the facts i present and ultimately myself a conspiracy theorist isnt an ad hom attack let me introduce you to the slimy tactic of lateral violence. Sleight of hand sleazy inferred ideas one implants in the mainstream to categorize and attempt to discredit by the simple mention of a key word that was implanted in the psyche to have a desired effect, wont be that easy with me, the astroturfing paradigm is useless in front of me. That being the foundation of lied fed into the mainstream narrative by which greater lies can be told, so youre quite literally fucked in dealing with me. if you dont counter with fact you just look like a whiney cry baby stomping their foot trying to assert non existent proof for the simple target of deriding another human being who has facts in hand

          • Dr. Dan

            Once again you have no facts all you have is a geology report which you’ve spun into a fantastic conspiracy theory.

            The fact that you’re posting links to your own facebook pages as sources to prove your case is pathetic to say the least.

          • Vernon

            Once again you come in with nothing but opinion and an attempt to defraud others of reality. thinkin youre probably a fed youre sticking to rule 5 like its your moms tit

          • Dr. Dan

            Once again you have presented no facts whatsoever. Do you even know what the word conjecture even means. All you’ve done is create an elaborate conspiracy theory around a common geologic report.

            The fact that you are hypersensitive to criticism is yet another tail tell sign of someone who has no interest in reality but rather is only interested in proving what they perceive to be reality.

            The fact is by your own comments you’ve proven to anyone reading this that you’re not open to accepting criticism or engaging in intellectual discourse but rather only interested in forcing people to accept your interpretations and points of view as fact. These are not the hallmarks of unbiased researchers seeking the truth, But rather the hallmarks of individuals with an agenda.

          • Dr. Dan

            “thinkin youre probably a fed ”

            Accusing those who disagree with you as being part of the vast conspiracy is the defacto hallmark of a conspiracy theorist.

          • Vernon

            only a person with an intimate interest in this for personal gain would persist with alinsky’s rule 5 and the lack of the socratic method and continually attempt to make this a personal struggle between yourself and me instead of arguing facts. it basically profiles you as a fed

          • Vernon

            the more you argue the more you reveal.

          • Vernon

            Victory always favors the honest. anyone with half a brain can see youre nothing but intellectual dishonesty.

          • Dr. Dan

            I’m not making it personal, You’re making it personal much like you’ve done with everyone else who’s dared question your theory. Every time I or anyone else point out that you have no real facts. instead of posting facts to support your claim you resort to personal attacks.

            Once again please provide links to credible sources backing up any facts you may have which you feel support your theory.

          • Vernon

            yeah it is a personal attack, youre calling me a liar , essentially. point debunked . anyway my sources were plenty credible and you are obviously obsessed as if its a personally intimate scenario, which reveals you A. as a fed. B, a whitehouse gook, C, an asshole looking to stir things up, D a satanic muslim bent on misinforming americans. so take your pick. My evidence is factual, the assay in malheur count does state 17.5 million tons, it is in fact part of a 17 mone uranium project that if they were all the same size would total 289 trillion dollars in uranium. there IS in fact evidence Hillary took Arm subsidiary Uranium 1 money for said mines and you refuse to produce anything to believably argue that , meanwhile maintaining a false air that youre actually arguing anything other than a liar when i am in truth , you are the liar and your core tactic is discrediting by defamation not qualified information. so sit down and take a break loser.

          • Dr. Dan

            First off all there is no Gary Darby listed as a member of the Oregon State Bar (not too surprising). https://www.osbar.org/index.html#

            Gary Darby has no judicial authority whatsoever. He just some schmuck off the street who decided that he was going appoint himself as a citizen judge.

            Not to surprising that a conspiracy theorist would attempt to support their own conspiracy theory by posting links to yet more conspiracy theories backed by a self appointed citizen judge and yet you can’t understand why no one takes you seriously.

            I’m curious have you ever held a real job and what is the longest time you’ve ever managed to retain gainful employment with the same employer.

          • Vernon

            More ad hominem attack, i grabbed the wrong link on that. probably had it in my cache as i was warning others they werent judges https://www.facebook.com/kelburn.koontz/posts/10206056851688493?comment_id=10206061534645564&notif_t=like

          • Vernon

            all you have is stamping your foot calling names and nothing.so yeah self defeating is a word bro

          • Vernon

            More ad hominem attack, i grabbed the wrong link on that. probably had it in my cache as i was warning others they werent judges https://www.facebook.com/kelburn.koontz/posts/10206056851688493?comment_id=10206061534645564&notif_t=like

          • Dr. Dan

            You lose substantial credibility by resorting to ad hominem.
            The rules of debate are clear, It’s impossible for anyone to prove a negative. The main problem with your conspiracy theory is not that it’s wrong, but that it’s inarguable; not that it’s false, but that it is unfalsifiable. Because it is unfalsifiable, Your conspiracy theory is not provable or disprovable. This means no one can disprove the conjecture you claim to be fact therefore the burden of proof is your responsibility not those who disagree with you.

            I’ve simply pointed out the obvious, You have no evidence whatsoever the argument you make relies on the naivete of the reader to simply accept it, All you have is conjecture backed by subjective personal opinion and circular logic Therefore there are no facts to contest which means you failed to prove your case.

            The bottom line is it’s a text book conspiracy theory. comprised entirely of circular logic and conjecture.

          • Vernon

            Bottom line is you ad hom attacked first and cried like a little girl when it came back at you, you have no evidence, nothing to say no counter argument and my ad hominem attack doesnt do anything to deter the facts i present that you fail to disprove. Two scientists in a lab one calls the other a fuckwit in the process of delivering a method the other argued against and can be duplicated, doesnt discount anything factually scientific he presents . cry baby

          • Vernon

            Again a great man once said determining what something is can be done by finding out what it isnt, and all ranchers are having their land infringed by the BLM and all their ranches have mineral wealth in the vicinity. I am not allowing you to defraud any readers here dan, there is no protection or defense for the ranchers or native americans facing the same

          • Vernon

            All you have is an in the box bag of shit coming straight out of dc and the more you push it the more youll reveal youre probably just a paid shill, the more angles you produce the more you have to reveal and in the end you might be left with a wash cloth sized parcel of deceit

          • Vernon

            Every non rebuttal makes your side weaker

          • Dr. Dan

            The only one engaging in fraud is you.

      • Vernon

        and dont rules for radicals me, I will obliterate you with that. if you want me to verbally decimate you with fact , no problem man, i crush trolls every day, breakfast lunch and dinner

  • 0pus

    So, do you wanna write the truth, or continue telling lies?

    https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648/videos/10154667085229762/

    • Kathleen Gierum

      Are you filming this in the county facility???

      • 0pus

        Mark posted it last night , you tell me who filming ….

      • Sherry

        He was released and filmed this at a hotel.

      • Annie Gifford

        What did they promise this guy in return???? Something for sure!!

    • UtVivantAli

      Hearsay

    • RSW

      The cowherds working with FBI ?

    • Susie Haynie

      “He charged at them…but I don’t know because I was not there. I don’t know.” Stop speculating but he is speculating.

    • Jeff

      Mark McConnell is an undercover Fed. He has been for sometime. Before his assignment with the Bundys he worked with biker gangs in the southwest. He is not to be trusted in anyway!

      • aschrec

        Do you have a source to back up your claim? I’m genuinely interested to find out if this is the case or not.

      • 0pus

        that is the single most Idiotic thing you could have said. God really, Prove it . . So is Pete Saintless, and John Ritzcracker if you wanna play that dumbass game

  • asuething

    I want to see pictures of the vehicles they were in. My guess is we’ll never see them because they’re all shot full of bullet holes from the robots taking orders from the FBI. This was cold blooded murder in an ambush. They even had guys up in trees waiting to fire on them. What does that tell you?

    • Kevnbrute

      Tells me that thug tactics, and backstabbing allowed in the FBI and OSP! Now we will probably see a split in society as we know it, or should I say knew it?

      • Michels

        They say that there were unmarked authorities there. Not FBI or State or Local.

        • T-Rex

          Mercenaries.

      • Joanie Kahl

        The
        pre-planned order was given and the
        American government ordered the mafia style execution after his own sheriff invited him to a public meeting while planning this ambuse. Mr. LaVoy Finicum had his hands up He was shot in the face at point blank
        range. FACE shots at this range art
        meant to send a message. Isis is the
        master at mutilating the head and the
        identity of the victim. Public
        Humiliation is the message. No other protestor in American has been invited on pretense to a public meeting by a public official to be killed.

        • Angelo

          Has the Clark county Sheriff arrested the perpetrators of this murderous thuggery yet? If not, I’d expect the fine residents to be locked and loaded in anticipation of the sudden necessity for self-defense against the very same pirates responsible for committing this outrageous atrocity. How any of them would otherwise feel secure in their person is an absurdity in thought to entertain.

        • Just

          Good! Those fools needed to get the message. Lavoy Finicum was an idiot who lived off of public assistance with his foster care scam. He wanted a fight, and he got one! AaaaaaHahahaha!

          • Cindy F

            Just ….it takes a pretty sick sort of individual who would delight and guffaw at a citizen being executioned…

          • Just

            He is directly responsible for what happened to him. He was a fool, and I hope the remaining fools at the wildlife refuge take notice.

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Please seek some help Just , to laugh hysterically at someone being shot in the face , whatever your take on the situation is very unhealthy to say the least .Again if you agree with the Fed position or not on this is not the point, one day you might find yourself in opposition to the federal government and what has been done to this citizen can be done to you and those you love with your consent

          • rem700

            Just is an obama voter, he thinks he’s on their team. Just is a pitiful moron…..don’t be a Just

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Im not even an American Citizen , Im an Irish citizen , Ireland is extremely worrying also , it is also meant to be a constitutional republic , the spirit of the people is an insult to its forbears

          • Just

            He wasn’t shot in the face.

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Oh , thats ok then !!

          • Just

            Not sure what your point is. The propaganda from the the “Oathkeepers” (or whatever they call themselves) is that he was unarmed and that he was shot in the face. Highly doubtful. This guy was armed, and he said he would not be taken alive. He said he preferred death to prison. Do the math. 1+1 = dead Lavoy. It’s a real shame that his wife has lost her husband and apparently her livelihood now that the state of Arizona has taken away their foster children, leaving them with no income. Maybe Lavoy should have chosen to go get a real job rather than commit treason.

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Ok , youve gone from asserting with great conviction that he wasnt shot in the face to admitting you just dont know Just, by saying “Highly Doubtful” , the track record of government dealing with citizens asserting their constitutional rights is extremely poor as regards the body count of murdered citizens , so im going with the hands up and murdered by a shot in the face senario until if proven otherwise. Looking after neglected and vulnerable children could not be a more beautiful , dignified and “real” job. I suggest you do some research on the definition of treason , I think you will find that stealing private land and selling it off to foreign companies to exploit its minerals fits the bill than those who would use their lawful constitutional rights to defend from such attack

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Forgot to add Just , you were confused about my point.My point is murder by gunshot is murder no matter where the entry point is ,Ive used the word point twice , to save any confusion on your part , one use of the word is to “make a point to clarify a discussion” the other “point” is the “physical location on the body of the victim that the gun shot entered” , if you need anymore help or are confused in any other way about my communication with you , please do not hesitate to ask

          • Just

            When the voices in your head start talking do you talk back to them or is it a one-way type of thing?

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Ok Just , it seems your not really concerned with answering any points raised with any insight or dignity ,I will assume your remarks about the foster care are baseless conjecture vis a vis the shot on the face remark.I hope you are a paid troll as at least then you have some self awareness of yourself as a government prostitute , the thought of you actually believing in the position you take is extremely concerning not only for the damage you inflict on your own spirit but also the potential threat you are to others.The system you defend uses you to attack and undermine others , if it succeeds in this it then turns itself on you and your loved ones if you have any.For your own sake at least study the frankfurt school cultural marxist techniques and google soviet dissidents like Bezmenov and solzhenitsyn , they explain the role the “useful idiot” in very simple and clear terms

          • Just

            Lavoy’s “job” involved collecting foster care welfare checks while exploiting the children for use as free farm labor.

          • Rowdy

            He wasn’t a farmer dumbass, he was a rancher. Hardly a childs job. You are a very simple minded unobservant twit.

          • Just

            … and Lavoy Finicum is a very dead dead guy. Ahhhhahahah! Do some more research. He had his foster kids working on his ranch. He claimed it built character, but it was also a sweet deal for him.

          • Rowdy

            Yeah I grew up on a ranch, it does build character. It was some of the best times in my life. I wouldn’t trade anything for it. There is absolutely nothing you can regurgitate that will convince me that he was anything but a fine man and a true HERO.

          • Just

            Lavoy Finicum was a fool, a dishonoable dead fool. He held his hands up as though he were surrendering, but then he went for his gun. Totally dishonorable. At least he was clever enough to get a cop to shoot him so that he could maybe attain martyr status, and I am sure that brings great comfort to his widow. Now, his widow will lose their land. Meanwhile, the Bundy bozos will likely end up in prison, and the rest of those bozos will lose their homes and livelihoods. And, that’s only IF they manage to stay out of prison. DOH!

          • Rowdy

            No ass hole your the complete fool. now go ahead and prove it. I have had enough of your continuous nitwit babbling, LaVoy did not have a gun on him and never owned a 9 mm. I’ve told you before only to have a repeat of your stupidity. He brought his hands down and to his left side because he was shot as soon as he cleared the back end of his truck.and gave the overzealous trooper that ran out to block the truck with his body and put bullets through the front windshield and then shot LaVoy as soon as he came into the firing line. That trooper should be the person in jail for 1st degree murder. Now I’m going to tell you something else. Do not harass me again. I’ve heard more than enough of your stupid rhetoric. Your on notice jack, If you mess with me any more, I will have a talk with my local sheriff, he will contact the webmaster with a warrent and obtain your contact information and then he will contact your local sheriff and then we will get to see how you deal with LE stepping on your Constitutional rights. Got it?

          • Just

            AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

          • Just

            Did you watch the video? WAMP, wamp……….
            wamp.

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Just watched it Just , its very grainy but does appear that he grabbed towards his hip , a very sad way for it to end , despite this his position was still the lawful one , the Feds are breaking the law in this whole confrontation. You have taken this as a green light reveal your border line narcissistic personality dis order , symptoms include extreme lack of empathy for those you perceive as sub humans as well as a pretense to be over empathic regards issues relating to humans you regards as deserving special treatment basically just to look good amongst your peer group , for example you scream in a comment below that the ranchers never owned the land , it all belongs to the “THE NATIVE AMERICANS” , well Just if that is your position , all the Americas are native lands including the land and resources that you own and use and if your concern is a true conviction you should relinquish all your resources , give the proceeds to some native americans and try to emigrate to your ancestral lands.A person not displaying your symptoms would see that the native americans AND the ranchers as both getting fucked by the feds and would see the situation as call to unity of all people of the USA against the Treasonous criminal Federal Government

          • Just

            And, your point is…?

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            To encourage you to seek help for your symptoms of narcissistic personality dis order as a pointing out the basic hypocrisy of your narrative

          • Just

            And, your point is…?

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Oh Dear

          • ImajWalker

            JUST < —- employed at TROLLS INC. where brains aren't a requirement. To 'use' them would be immediate termination!
            Find a really, really high apartment building and pretend you are Superman. Let us know where we can buy tickets!

            U disgusting P.O.S.

          • Just

            Did you watch the video? He had his arms in the air… just before he reached for his Colt 45. He’s not just a damn fool. He is a damn dishonorable fool. He put his arms up like he was surrendering, and then he tried to pull his gun out. No honor at all! He was despicable.

          • vwood48

            BULLSHIT! Prove it.

          • Just

            I just did.

          • Just

            Prove he was shot in the face.

          • Just

            Watch the video, and eat your words.

          • Rowdy

            Yes he was. He arrived home today with 9 gunshot wounds when fed reported only 3 shots fired, and had closed casket because he had no face.

          • Just

            Sorry. Not true. Next…

          • Just

            I heard he got shot 27 times in the weiner! This was despite his pleas of “Don’t shoot me in the weiner!

          • vwood48

            NO you are a fool. drink the kool-aid and eat shit sandwiches like you POS potus tells you. Sheeple like you make me want to puke.

          • Just

            Oh, shit sandwiches and Koolaid? I wasn’t aware that was available. I’ll certainly have to look into it. In the meantime, your dad says “hi.”

          • Just

            This was the last thing that Lavoy Finicum heard: https://www.youtube.com/embed/1ytCEuuW2_A?autoplay=1&FORM=VIRE2&PC=MOZA

          • vwood48

            Way to back up asshole!

          • Just

            Yeah, I do pray for his wife, who was dumb enough to marry this idiot POS.

          • vwood48

            Yes, EXECUTION! Really GOOD message. Yes he wanted a fight (to get our fed under control) not to be shot to death on a dark road for absolutely NO reason.

          • Ezzy666

            Americans have the right to be as sick as they want to be.

          • Cindy F

            OBVIOUSLY! There are plenty enough of them to go around….

          • vwood48

            You are “just” another jackass listening to one side (you obviously still believe this out of control fed still has our best interest at it’s core) and drawing your biased liberal opinion.

          • Grandhuff

            They may have gone about this the wrong way, but I respect the fact that they took a stand for what is right. This is about the illegal federal land grab. If many more citizens would take a stand against this, this type of unorganized militia activity would not be necessary. This is all tied in with the type of thing Harry Reid dirtied his hands in. There is no intention to preserve Wildlife. In fact, Wildlife is slaughtered if in the way. It’s all about money. There are very valuable resources on these Western lands. I’m going to post a link for more details, but I want to mention that there is also a lot gold on the lands that the Federal government has stolen. It is unconstitutional for the government to own land.
            http://www.infowars.com/oregon-occupation-about-unconstitutional-federal-land-grab/

          • Just

            Yes, land was grabbed… from the NATIVE AMERICANS more than 100 years ago. No one was grabbing any land from the Bundys, Mr. Finicum or any of those other redneck yahoos. If they want to gripe about land grabs they can get in line behind the Burns Paiute tribe.

          • http://www.home.earthlink.net/~atdouble/~318thFighterGroupIndex.html Cammosutra

            First of all it is NOT unconstitutional to own land. The clause cited for that refers specifically to siting the capitol and nothing else. As for the land being “stolen” the government could not give that land away when the frontier closed. No one would homestead it, corporations didn’t want it. Instead of giving it back to the indians, it was declared public land and an agency was set up to manage and take care of it for the benefit of everybody. Today, some cattle ranchers now think they have exclusive “right” to it and should be exempt from regulations, or in Cliven Bundy’s case even paying modest grazing fees to use this public land. Does the Federal Government own almost 90% of Nevada? Yes. Was it “stolen”? NO.Except from native americans. Should some be returned to the states? Maybe. But that doesn’t justify taking up arms against Federal employees or law enforcement, And Lavoy can clearly be seen putting one hand inside his vest just before he was shot.

            But the Bundy defenders will still argue 2 +2 = any number except 4, facts be damned.

          • Rowdy

            He put his hands down and in his jacket BECAUSE he had been shot.

          • messianicdruid

            Do you ever feel like “a room without a roof”.

          • Just

            Often, I am a man without pants, but that’s only at the grocery store and only after 10 a.m.

          • inquisitive

            Just your statement is totally out of line. A man is dead that you didn’t even know. Show some respect those foster kids probably loved his family.

          • Jennifer Starr

            And if he hadn’t done what he did he’d most likely still be alive–his wife would still have her husband and his children would still have a father.

          • Just

            Had he gotten to his Colt there might have been another dead man that I also didn’t know. Sorry, this guy was a shortsighted fool. He died for nothing, and his actions preceding his death showed him to be the dishonorable and despicable person that he was.

        • SocraticGadfly

          The Grant County sheriff who is a known Posse Comitatus type and highly sympathetic to the Bundys et al? He’s now part of the conspiracy? Oh lordy.

          • Joanie Kahl

            The ranching committee
            was invited that day by the sheriff, the district atty and the FBI to attend a
            public meeting where over 100 people waited…The meeting was arranged and confirmed by Coalition of Western States who had spoken with the above and other officials then assured the Bundy’s of their support…….hours after this……the Ranching committee began traveling to the public meeting……The sheriff knew at the time of resolution arrangements that the ambush trap was planned…….YES he was complicit if you are talking about the Sheriff david ward. …………then 14-16 full combat geared FBI, K-9s, heavy equipment, strobe lights, drones, trapped them on a lonely no
            witness highway…behind and in front…the entire event even a child could see
            was designed to draw a violent response…a probable “shootout”…..
            which the media …said on air before the facts were out….a “shootout” which did not occur.
            even when the committee was fired on in a closed vehicle…they remained where they sat…..Ghandi like, MLK, Jr. peaceful…. “shoot out” never occurred……

          • SocraticGadfly

            And, of course, that’s all lies. I’ve seen the official video of Finicum driving off, then hitting the second roadblock, then reaching for a gun after an initial fake-out hands up, and that video’s embedded on my blog post.

            http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2016/01/oregonstandoff-intelligence-held.html

          • Joanie Kahl

            frankly I think you hve the wrong sheriff…the other one is know as you describe different county….

          • SocraticGadfly

            No, I have them correct. You’re really in the deep end if you think the Grant Cty sheriff and his Posse Comitatus act and “sign my constitution please” isn’t sympathetic.

            The Harney County sheriff, down in Burns, on the other hand, knows that he swore an oath to actually uphold the Constitution, and did so very well.

    • izzy

      Tells me you are as delusional as they are… I am so tired of people who think they are better than the law… Laws are for others not them… These were squatters who were breaking the law, not martyrs… They have been baiting law enforcement for almost a month and there was no other way for it to end… They were too stupid to surrender…

      • KCK

        So, they were breaking the law. Well, let me ask you something. What is the Supreme Law of the Land and what does it say about the Federal Government ‘owning’ or even ‘managing’ land? Find the law that gives the Feds the authority to do what they did. I’ll give you a starting point. Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 17.

        • vwood48

          Fat chance she can find that.

      • Michael Loflin

        I guess you think it’s allright for the federal government to claim whatever they want from peoples land. You know this is all over mineral rights the government wants to steal and give to china thru a canadian company.

        • aschrec

          It’s not alright at all, but just sort of funny that white people are getting all worked up over it all of the sudden. All that land was violently stolen from Natives and Mexicans anyhow by our US gov’t, so I guess since they’re the ones who stole it, they’re the ones who decide what can be done with it now. Right?

          • Susie Haynie

            The man that was killed, Levoy Finnecum, was documenting what the government had done with the Native American items that were supposed to be taken care of. He showed that the items were stuffed in boxes in a basement with rat feces and nests in them. He was also fighting for the Paiute to get their land back. Do the research. Check out the videos on his page and the Bundy Ranch page on Facebook. Plenty of white people don’t agree with what happened to Native Americans and their lands.

          • aschrec

            Point taken, and if that is true, I commend his efforts. I was only being half serious anyhow in response to Michael getting upset over the gov’t stealing land from ranchers (land that they had already stolen before).

          • Michels

            It’s on YouTube. All you have to do is search “Proof they don’t care about Indian…”

          • aschrec

            Thanks, will check it out. Unfortunately, even though those are noble efforts, this protest wasn’t about Native’s getting their land back.

          • jy kelly

            Where did the natives get the the land to begin with? Were there no wars between any of the Indians? Of course there were..
            …… White people just did war better than Indians…..

          • aschrec

            Well then I guess conversely, the US gov’t just does eminent domain better than ranchers.

          • jy kelly

            They do for right now… If you think this is over, uh, no, it’s just beginning…. People know how the federal people and will get even with them one of these days….. THIS whole federal goverment pushing people off of their land that has been in their falily for years ,
            is far from over………. Mark my words……..

          • aschrec

            You might be right, I don’t know. Just given the history of our government, none of it surprises me. I’m just (in a round about way) pointing out that Manifest Destiny was wildly championed by the American people, but when it comes to white people land, it’s all the sudden personal and time for revolution. I don’t see this going the way this militia expects it will at all.

          • jy kelly

            LOL… GOTCHA, but, if you think that these people (ranchers) are just going to lie down and go quietly, you are sadly mistaken…. Watch and see…. People are sick of the lawless federal thugs… BLM, FBI, DEA, all of them……

          • aschrec

            I am just of the opinion that going about it the way they did is probably the most asinine way to do it. This isn’t the 1700’s anymore, we don’t have the same weaponry as the cops or federal government do. Unless you have multitudes upon multitudes of people on your side willing to die, you’re going to fail in an armed revolution. Any revolution we have now will be digital (meaning we would need some serious hackers on our side) or in the ballots. In my opinion, these guys are just acting out war game fantasies.

          • John Price

            Of course the people will lose in an armed conflict. But look at the political cost of what has happened so far. That is the beauty of the 2nd Amendment. Until now the government has realized that to actually go to war with the people was to politically expensive. Yes, they would “win” but at what cost. I suspect they are about to find out the real political cost of even a relatively minor incident like this one, and this is minor compared to what is likely to happen in the future.

          • aschrec

            You might be right too, I can’t predict the future. What I can say though is that if you go to different sites and comment sections, most people are not in favor of what the Bundy’s were doing and are glad they’ve been arrested. I don’t think the blowback is going to be as significant as some think it will be. That doesn’t mean I agree or disagree with their sentiments, I just think the Bundy’s are going about revolution the wrong way.

            I want to see proper and intelligent revolution happen, and that means hitting them where it hurts the most. Hacking government agencies, exposing lies, hacking Wall Street and banks…basically shaking the system to its core without ever firing a shot. Look at how revered Snowden is on both sides, and all he did was expose something that most people knew about already. THAT’S the kind of revolution we need. And then maybe, if you have enough people on your side, tides can start really turning.

            I am not against the sentiments here, just the delivery. People have got to get smart about this if they really want change.

          • Michels

            That is because the government is controlling the narrative through the media. Psyop

          • Michels

            Hacking really? And what Country is going to shelter successful hacker(s) from a very angry US gov? You think Russia’s gonna take them all? Don’t think so. Hillary leaked all the good top secret stuff.

          • aschrec

            Yes. Really. If it is planned intelligently no one would have to be sheltered anywhere. Or do you think pockets of militia members scattered across the US are the only option? What would be better is if they all worked in conjunction with each other, because I can guarantee you, unless there is an army equal to or greater than what the feds have, an armed revolution is going to fail on its own. Our sentiments are similar, I just disagree on the execution.

          • Psychonaut23

            Yep. Live action role playing…LARP it is called. In real LARP you are not allowed to bring real knives or guns. We all crave adventure…play some Skyrim or such.

          • Michels

            You sound just like my young adult son. And those comments and thoughts are the very reason they can do things like Benghazi, Hillary’s sharing ultra top secret info, and this without concern. Some where it will end. Either when you’ve lost all freedom and are a slave to the State or when you fight to protect our Constitution and Civil Rights. I will be long gone when that happens, whatever happens, but my sons will hear a “I told you” from heaven or when I see them there.

          • messianicdruid

            It will not happen until Americans repent (change mind) if their sins (1John3:4).

            We are to have no other rulemakers (gods) before the Creator God.

          • Alexandru Cojocaru

            Commenting from Romania here. Usually silent reader, but now I really feel the need to write. Never in the history of mankind, free-minded people were somewhere close to a majority. If you think that this will happen in your generation, you dream.
            The vast majority of people are and will ever be followers of the populist and the authoritarians. This is how most humans function, following the alpha and preferring the status-quo and the security of the servitude.
            Sometimes, extremely rare moments in the history, a large mass of people are pushed away or migrate to large areas of low populated lands. These people are oppressed and run, or they are courageous explorers willing to take risks. In such very rare contexts, the percentage of the free-minded people can be higher. It’s reported to be around a third in the US at the time of the war for Independence. Even so, most of this free-minded people won’t fight. In the independence war, is reported that 10% of the free-minded were active fighters, the other just offering support.
            And never, absolutely never in the history of the mankind, the majority of populist and authoritarian gave place to liberty. There always had to be a revolution.
            Put it in the present times, if you hope that by internet and ballot you’ll ever have at least a minimum respect of the Constitution, you’re playing fantasy games.
            10% of the US population that’s roughly 35,000,000 people. If they would offer support for 3,500,000 armed people marching to DC and do a people arrest of the Government, I assure you that the feds will give up and part of the Army will sympathize with them. And the majority will do what they did during the Revolution. Maybe a third of them opposing verbally and a third not even caring of the outcome.
            That’s the only hope for you if you have at least the liberty provided under the Constitution: 1% of the people marching to DC armed and 10% offering logistic and material support. I hoped the Oregon standoff to be the spark that triggers that move but it wasn’t maybe the next one, after the socialists by the internet and ballots get even more control and oppress you even more.

          • aschrec

            Those are good points, and thanks for the reply. Still though, like you said, you need those 10% offering logistics and material support (and in this day and age those people would almost certainly have to be involved in a technical/IT aspect) for the 1% to even have a chance. You have to spark those people first for the rest to work. What we really need is too is for the people who want change to get united behind a clear and singular cause. Right now it’s nothing but pockets of people ticked off about different things…no one uniting. Thank you for the input though, it’s appreciated.

          • Michels

            Ammon said repeatedly that he wanted to work with the tribe. He sent repeated requests to meet with their representative wherever she wanted. She refused. Guess she thinks she’ll be better off with Nasty Grasty & Son, BLM. Just wait til the mining starts.

          • Michels

            For the record, all of the people I know would defend native people whenever and wherever they ask. You keep going back to native vs white. This is why the gov is able to pull this kinda stuff. It is NOT about those things. American citizens need to stand together against all of the very serious threats ahead.

          • aschrec

            It wasn’t about Native vs. White people. It’s about the majority of people (most of them white) didn’t give a crap, historically, about government politicians with armed forces seizing land from Natives and Mexicans. They only cared when it was their land (that the government stole from others). I’m in no way saying that there aren’t white people anywhere that care about that issue, and that’s great that you know some of them. How many of them ever tried to start a revolution to return Native and Mexican lands to the people it was stolen from? Because that’s what this was all about right? People who were tired of the federal government taking their property? If there are examples I’ve failed to see, I’ll gladly read any info you have.

          • mxl994

            Our family was a victim of our utility company inflicting eminent domain upon us. Of course they had the government’s backing. Land that had been in the family since the 1800’s, and homes – my brother’s very nice new home with detached garage and mother-in-law suite bulldozed to the ground.My parents’ home which was paid for and had been newly remodeled…bulldozed as well. All so that the utility could build a major power switching station.

          • Michels

            Sorry they did that to your family. Some times politician’s will help but….

          • Cindy F

            mx1994 ….we are in jeopardy of the same thing…just waiting to hear which route they decide upon…..city folk have NO idea…

          • Lela Madera

            To the victor go the spoils. Fact of life.

          • Leonard Macbean

            Who occupied the land before the natives? That’s a bit of research nobody ever does. . .

          • Michels

            White people have peacefully protested against governmental intrusion regardless of the government’s target for years. Can’t see much of it working the other way around lately though.

          • aschrec

            True, it’s just more widely known now with social media. I’d say that’s pretty true for any groups form of protest really. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment anyway, not to be taken too seriously.

          • Joanie Kahl

            To RACE baiting race card
            agitators, media and racists……. I abhor the race card and tried on many occasions
            to offset in social media . And I am a supporter of black, white and
            anyone who fights violence. I hear the
            divisive race card bandied about as a word game by pretty jezebel men and women
            inside the frame of a TV.BUT, after the mafia styled government execution of a
            peaceful unarmed protestor on his way to a meeting called by his own sheriff in
            a public setting, I wonder if racists
            are happy now to have a White Privileged
            Murder by government. This Blood
            is as much on your hands as any blame you ever dished out to Whites.

            Whether divisive trolls or not, blacks
            voices arguing against violence was very weak if present at all. By silence and overt statements your public
            actions were complicit in the murder of a man with his hands up.

            This has nothing to do with
            police lack of training and departmental cover-ups. Publicly, as a race Blacks demanded Blood, claiming social injustice. Your
            leaders did not offer help to resolve or make peace based on your own protestor
            knowledge of being unheard by the system. Your
            thirst for revenge for white privileged blood wounded many of my race. The choice for blood, based on my race not my
            heart , is not easily understood.

          • Michels

            Obviously White Rural lives don’t matter

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Well said mate , on social media in the UK , the race bait card has been played extensively regards this situation , same old bolllocks here , slaves moaning that the slave masters are punishing the other slaves too little , the house and the field slave mentality alive and well amongst all the races of slaves

      • Annie Gifford

        Wake up and smell the dam coffee!! This government of ours is so dam corrupt, the media doesn’t help one dam bit either. Tell you only what they want you to know and not the truth. Read your history on Ruby Ridge and Waco and look at their tactics, which got people killed and for what??? If you are so dam stupid, and not do your homework, and do your own thinking, then you need to be with the far left idiots that run our country. Am a female viet nam vet and took an oath to defend this country, foreign and domestic and that oath still stands with me today especially with our corrupt government running amuck!! Wake the hell up!!

        • izzy

          You have no idea what I know and I what I have read… You don’t know me and thank God, I don’t know you… You have every right to your opinion of everything but just because it’s your opinion doesn’t make it right… My opinion is every bit as important as yours and If you don’t like mine, too bad… I don’t appreciate the tone of your post, you sound like a bully but I could be wrong and you are just upset… I hope that is the case… Just because you were in the military, doesn’t mean you are better than anyone who wasn’t… It doesn’t make your opinion better than anyone else’s … As a matter of fact, I am a wake and I have smelled the coffee… Hazelnut… yum…

          • IanHobbes

            Come on people, you know you cannot argue with trash like this. She even said she was baiting you. Just write her nasty ass off as a piece of garbage and ignore it.

          • John Price

            Ignorant hillbilly? When did YOU attend law school? You’re a typically ignorant product of our public schools where every opinion, no matter how unfounded and outlandish is as valid as any other. For you, there are no such things as verifiable, objective facts. Everything is opinion and emotion, and you insist on your own personal version of reality. You’re sad. Get a life and quit trolling the internet. Let the grownups have an intelligent conversation without your ignorant rantings.

          • vwood48

            Sorry–anyone who has been in the military IS better than YOU.

      • Mike Smith

        Well then, let’s see the pics, Izzy before you run your big mouth.

        • izzy

          Why, do you have pics, then you show them…. I have every right to state my opinion as you do…. And at this point that is all that is on here, everyone’s opinion but if it doesn’t match yours guess it must be wrong… You can believe what you want and I’ll believe what I want…

          • Susie Haynie

            Izzy if you go to the Bundy Ranch page on Facebook, they have posted an audio of the woman mentioned in this article. She was on the phone with someone I am assuming was her attorney who recorded her with her permission. She said the vehicle was in terrible shape…all shot up. The recording is horrifying. This was most definitely an ambush. These people were going to town thinking they were going to get to meet with the Sheriff and townspeople..just as they have done peacefully many times in their own county over the Bundy Ranch situation. They always video documented everything that happened. I would imagine that their phones or any recordings were taken when they were arrested…and destroyed.

          • aschrec

            Except for Bundy’s cell phone of course, which he used (and this is documented by those in the Bundy camp…it’s how their side of the story came out to begin with) to call his wife and convey his side of the story. All this happened after he was arrested and in custody of course. Isn’t that so generous of the feds? After they murder someone in cold blood, they let every other person live, and even let them make cell phone calls while in custody. It’s like a Christmas miracle.

          • Susie Haynie

            When you are arrested, you are allowed a phone call. I have read nothing that states that these calls came from their cell phones…except one call that was done while they were still in their vehicles. This ambush was most likely done to set an example. Mark my words.

          • aschrec

            I’ll try and look for it in a few minutes, but I believe they specifically said he called her from his cell phone.

          • aschrec

            Ok, I found it. It’s the video (the one in all black with just the voice) on the Bundy Ranch FB page. Guy says Ammon Bundy is in custody in the back of the police vehicle and still has his cell phone and calls his wife. https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/videos/951221081621367/

          • Michels

            That sounds like Santelli

          • aschrec

            Might be, I’m not sure. They didn’t say on their page.

          • aschrec

            And mind you…Ammon was in the same place as Mark was, so how did he know what had happened? Victoria (who is 18 and impressionable) didn’t release her story until the next morning, after Ammon’s narrative had already been released. Mark claims his version was told to him by Shawna Cox, who was in the same vehicle as Lavoy, so it’ll be interesting to hear what she has to say. Of course, dashcam or bodycam video would be preferable to all these conflicting accounts.

          • Susie Haynie

            Have you heard her account? I believe her since she was in the vehicle with Finnecum. Ammon and Mark were not. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2wA18O_6dgw&feature=youtu.be

          • aschrec

            Yes I have, it’s posted on the Bundy Ranch page. I am not taking anyone’s account as truth at the moment (though I do find Mark’s to be the most plausible for a few reasons). Like I said, I’d be interested to hear Shawna Cox’ account as well as see some kind of video. Something about hundreds of bullets being pumped into a vehicle with no one (or only one person being grazed) being killed or seriously injured doesn’t make sense to me (Lavoy was shot after exiting the vehicle). I also don’t think if the feds were going to execute someone, they would leave so many witnesses…nor would they forget to pat down and *destroy* Ammon Bundy’s cell phone while he’s in custody.

            Did they aggressively pull them over and arrest them? Yes, no question about that. Is the story that one guy (who had previously stated that he would rather fight and die than be taken to jail) decided to flee and charge at the cops got shot more believable to me? Yes, it is. It would not surprise me at all to find out that these guys fabricated the “feds shooting hundreds of bullets into a vehicle and then executing them with their hands up” story. Not even a little bit. Is it possible? Sure, just not more plausible in my mind. Like I said though, I will wait until more details to come out before I formulate a more solid opinion. I hope others do as well.

          • Michels

            Millions will believe just like they believed what we were told about Benghazi and Hillary’s private servers so she could discuss ultra top secret info with her buddies

          • aschrec

            Not doubting that at all. Fact is though, right now there are conflicting reports and they’re not from the feds, they’re from the people inside the group. Let’s be realistic here though, even if video comes out of the incident, and it shows that Lavoy was indeed charging towards the cops, there will also be people who will still believe that the cops are at fault. People are just going to believe what they want either way…goes for both sides. I’m just trying to be a bit more objective about it and encouraging others to do so as well until more info comes out.

          • Michels

            No most of us immediately recognized that the vehicle should never have driven around the blockade. PERIOD. That does not excuse how they handled the rest of the incident though.

          • aschrec

            I was thinking more of the people who will say the video was faked, or edited or some such thing. IF he was shot dead with his hands up, I agree that they handled the incident properly. But if he charged at the cops, then he brought it on himself.

          • Michels

            Me too. Also there is no information regarding the actual time the interview occurred which seemed to have been conducted entirely by telephone.

          • Michels

            Victoria needs to get some big organization behind her to pay for her legal defense. They’re going to try to bully her into recounting her interview so they can finally wipe out both the Hammonds and the Bundy family.

          • wanagiakicita

            Izzy – they like beating up women and trying to prove how macho they are…don’t let the terrorist supporters get to you. The majority of intelligent people in this country understand they were nothing but hillbilly terrorists! PERIOD!

          • CT

            Oh you have it twisted. It’s people like you who support the “refugee” influx that rape women as a sport.

          • Michels

            Yeah….good luck with that wanagiakiacita

          • Rhonda Shaw

            izzy it appears you whine about opinions yet opinions are like assholes we all have one but it takes true patriotism to stand up and be counted. As for you dissing a vet how damn dare you. She fought so your fat ass can whine all day. Get back to your soaps and chips sheeple like you will always be controlled. Just keep feeding you the lies on the big program (T.V) .

      • Paul X

        The law used to say escaped black slaves must be returned to their owners. Would YOU have obeyed such a law?

        Sometimes you have to consult your own conscience. Assuming you have any.

        Of course laws are for the peons, not the rulers or their enforcers.

        • izzy

          You have no idea how much fun I’m having…. You people are so easy to bait… You have no idea what you are talking about and you just are regurgitating what you have been told on talk radio… Keep listening to it and watching Faux news… I’m sure they are telling you the absolute truth… yeah, right… Sorry but I need to go make dinner and I just don’t have time to keep playing with you children.. .

          • KCK

            Sorry, but I’m ‘regurgitating’ the Constitution of the united States. Where are you getting YOUR info?

          • jy kelly

            Says the “WOMAN” that gets her talking points from Mother Jones and Think Progress… I’m sure they are telling you the truth…. LOSER….
            ….. You love the governmnet so much, just wait until they come after you and your family …
            …… Of course you didn’t answer the question above, about runaway slaves and retuning them…
            ….. You have no idea about what our government is doing to the ranchers in the west…..

          • freewheelinfranklin543

            Izzy is a troll you morons! Quit feeding it!

          • colinjames71

            Thank you

          • Lela Madera

            You revealed your ignorance when you referred to “Faux” news. That’s so juvenile and reveals just how brainwashed you are.

          • Michels

            You’re the one who’s being told what to think. We all are. It’s called the media including those like Mother Jones and Think Progress. Get off your high horse.

          • Ben William

            …and where do YOU get your intel from? Your loving government?

          • obviuoslytheseagulls

            Like the guy who laughs hysterically at the news of a human being being shot in the face , You izzy display very concerning sociopathic tendencies as you find this fun and take pleasure from baiting others , this makes me quite concerned for your children , but I know from your posts that you at least have unquestioning respect for government agencies so I know you will understand that I have to report you to child services and you will co operate with them fully

      • Lela Madera

        Izzy, you are very mistaken, and ignorant of our Constitution. Read it!

      • Ken s

        im confused izzy are you tired of the federal government thinking they are better then the law? This is why the protest was happening, over reach of the feds and using strong arm tactics to get ranchers to sell. Since the buildings at the refuge were not being used and are public buildings. I dont see the problem with the protesters having a warm place so they can protest peacefully. At what point did the federal government even try to see if the protesters had any merit. From the beginning the feds were vilifying these protesters.

      • Ben William

        “Laws are for others not them” that seems to be the motto of today’s government?

        These people were getting the word out to the public how the federal government BROKE THE LAW. This was NOT a ‘surrender’ situation. The ranchers ‘protesting’ at the (abandoned) wildlife center were in talks with the FBI and were willing to leave if the FBI would investigate the BLM for the crimes they committed in Oregon against the ranchers. That was all they were asking.

        Whether the methods were bad or not they did make a stand against a government gone completely off the ‘constitutional reservation.

        If you stand for nothing Izzy, YOU’LL fall for anything.

      • obviuoslytheseagulls

        If the Law told you to jump off a cliff , would you , I agree with you however that rule of Law is paramount and the USA has a rule of Law , its called the Constitution, none of the actions of the Fed agencies have any constitutional mandate and thus are in contravention of the Law

    • Paul X

      I hope we see it before they send it to the crusher. Remember the bulldozer at Waco?

    • Mr Reynard

      Perfect training from the “most moral” army…..
      Hate to tell you, but you’ve just become Palestinian !

    • Michels

      Going to a negotiation meeting called by the Sheriff. I’d like to see them explain why they shot a man that had already been killed by one of the snipers another 3 to 6 times. And why they fired several rounds of gas and over 100 rounds into a vehicle who’s occupants had their hands out of the windows in attempt to surrender. The quote was that they (occupants) were continually screaming pleas to stop and the firing would start again whenever they heard them.

    • Just

      Whew! I had such a good laugh when I read that Lavoy was shot dead. It’s what he wanted, and he sure got it!

    • lovesliberalnews

      It was caught on film by SWAT officers. They will be releasing the footage you gullible idiot. http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/us/oregon-siege-traffic-stop/index.html

    • SocraticGadfly

      Proof?

    • RealityBites

      If they were shot full of holes, wouldn’t there be more than 1 dead and 1 slightly wounded?

    • Steve Gibson

      And when it shows no damage will the next conspiracy be that they repaired the truck??? Victoria Sharp claims they fired approximately 120 shots with laser sighted arms into a truck carrying 5 passengers and the only injury was a single shot to the arm of Ryan Bundy??? If you believe that I have a bridge for sale you can buy. A nice big bridge. LOL

    • vwood48

      That is exactly what I said. All the gestapo feds need to do is show us the vehicle that Miss Sharp was in. The hearsay “eyewitnesses” are a non issue to me. The people screaming bloody murder in the vehicle (who were RIGHT there) hold more water than someone who has heard bullshit by his fbi “captors”, etal. God save us from a misguided out of control glutenous federal government that has taken control of over one half of our land west of the Mississippi River. (Look it up)

    • Barbara M.

      There is a video on the Bundy facebook page showing the entire thing. Sickening what the government is doing.

    • Sam Atkinson

      You really think 180 bullets missed? Half that many killed the Muslims in LA. They were Pussy non lethal pepper spray rounds. Treated as Muslims they would have all been dead.

  • Angelo

    I saw it on the yewtoob. It must be true.

  • Johnny Bliss

    government is EVIL

  • izzy

    It’s about time something has been done… I don’t believe Victoria Sharp’s “so called” eyewitness account… Does anyone believe that she would not try to paint them as martyrs? This has gone on for far too long and it is probably the only way it was going to end… the squatters thought that they could do whatever they wanted and bait the Feds all they wanted… They were bullies, and hopefully, the ones left at the compound are smart enough to surrender… But then again, if they were smart, they wouldn’t be there in the first place.. .

    • Patty Cita

      STFU CUNT

      • izzy

        Do you actually eat food with that mouth… Guess that must be the best comeback that you can do… Oh, well, Gee, I’m quaking in my boots… NOT

        • Michels

          Think I heard Mama Jones calling in all their minions. Head along now.

    • aschrec

      I’m with you on this. Her story is just too far fetched. They shot 100+ bullets into the vehicle, and no one was hit? That must be one heavy duty vehicle (keeping in mind that Lavoy wasn’t shot until after he exited the vehicle). Not to mention they shoot him in cold blood and let the others walk away as witnesses? Nah, not buying it. If they wanted to be the evil entity that some people make them out to be, they would have shot them all dead and called it a bloody shootout. Marks account (told to him by Shawna Cox) is far more believable.

      • Michels

        A older heavy duty diesel pickup.

    • RSW

      you are an idiot

      • izzy

        In your exalted opinion…

        • RSW

          No………..You are an idiot.

    • Annie Gifford

      Go pull up your big girl panties, shut your piehole, and lay down somewhere!!

      • izzy

        Why don’t you…There is a word for people like you.. .It’s called bully… Am I supposed to be frightened of someone who is miles away from me and has no idea who I am… Not me…

        • Michels

          You’re someone who hopefully will fall into the ocean when the Big Earthquake hits.

    • KCK

      She’s not the only one that had the account. This guy that was used as an ‘eye witness’ did state that he was 200 yards away. Were there vehicles between them? And could you see what was going on from that distance with pin point accuracy? Think about that. That’s 2 football fields distance.

      As far as ‘squatters’ go, the Feds are the squatters. They have no lawful authority to hold that land or do anything with it. And these people have a right to assemble for a redress of grievances. Or, are we in North Korea now?

      • izzy

        If they wanted to have a meeting concerning this, they why did they go and occupy an empty government building at night? Why not assemble, as you call it, in the daylight hours in a public place, not an unoccupied government facility when the workers are on holiday leave…. If it was people who lived in the area, then it would have actually made sense, rather than out of state so called ranchers.. .

        • KCK

          Nowhere does it state they can only assemble in certain places at certain times. It was an iconic spot. There was no one there and their grievance was with the BLM who has been taking land away from ranchers all over the west not just in one spot. And this WAS suppose to be a public place, was it not? The Feds have no lawful authority over that land in the first place.

          • Lela Madera

            So Izzy is now dictating where and when law-abiding citizens can assemble?

          • Michels

            Just like some others. And Nasty Grasty was saying that it was costing Burns $75K a day??? Ha! True to the end, ole Nasty’s serving up the goods for the Feds.

        • Michels

          At least they tried not to inconvenience local residents. Can’t say the same for Occupy and Black Lives

  • Patty Cita

    The FBI pos can’t even shoot properly. …100 shots and 2 of those bullets hit 2 people. Pigs, pigs and real pigs

    • Mik

      3 shots; 2 people

      • KCK

        From the report I heard (and I’ve heard so many now that I can’t recall where) LaVoy was shot 3 times. They killed him and then pumped two more into him. I guess we’ll find out from the autopsy report. If they release it. I also want to see dash cam video from the cops.

        • Michels

          They will release the “acceptable” response. Hint-there’s probably a movie that caused it

        • Grandhuff

          The LEOs released that he was shot 3 times. The eyewitness account from Victoria Sharp who was in the truck with LaVoy tells the truth. It was on this page as the point of this article. Didn’t you listen to it? It appears that it has been removed from this site Probably by the Feds. But it is on youtube (for now). Listen to the entire thing.

      • Grandhuff

        Didn’t you listen to Victoria Sharp’s eyewitness account? It appears to have been removed from here, but it’s still on youtube. There were 100’s of shots and tear gas was used. LaVoy was shot at least 9-10 times, most of them were after he was on the ground. He had his hands up even on the ground until he was dead. Listen to her full account of what happened. Listen from beginning to end.

    • Grandhuff

      Didn’t you listen to Victoria Sharp’s eyewitness account? It appears to have been removed from here, but it’s still on youtube. There were 100’s of shots and tear gas was used. LaVoy was shot at least 9-10 times, most of them were after he was on the ground. He had his hands up even on the ground until he was dead. Listen to her full account of what happened. Listen from beginning to end. Ryan Bundy was shot once.

      • Patty Cita

        I already know

  • RSW

    Mark McConnell Melvin Lee…………the cowherds working with FBI ?

    • Grandhuff

      You are right about that! The producer of this video wrote this as a disclaimer: “I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF THE KEY POINTS MADE IN THESE ACCOUNTS. LAVOY FINICUM WAS SHOT WITH HIS HANDS IN THE AIR. These two reports differ from the original narrative that LaVoy was shot with his hands over his head. Reports by Melvin Lee and Mark McConnell. These are not eye witness claims, but are worth listening to for the different perspectives.”

  • Mik

    why would anyone exit a vehicle and move towards law enforcement? you wait for instructions and then get out super slowly & carefully…and why was an 18 year old girl there? in a truck full of armed men, seems a bit odd…

    • Grandhuff

      Victoria Sharp was part of the militia. She’s an adult. She can do what she wants.

  • Paul X

    Melvin Lee, apparently in another part of the convoy(?) says Lavoy stopped a MILE past the first vehicle, also bringing McConnell’s account into question. But it also seems to include a lot of second-hand material:

    I want to SEE A PICTURE OF LAVOY’S TRUCK. What possible reason could there have been for shooting that truck full of holes, continuing after Lavoy was killed? They did not drive through the roadblock; Lavoy did. Only he controlled the truck.

    • Grandhuff

      Hearsay! This is only one secondhand account. This video shows two different secondhand accounts of what happened. They are both wrong. The producer of this video wrote this as a disclaimer: “I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF THE KEY POINTS MADE IN THESE ACCOUNTS. LAVOY FINICUM WAS SHOT WITH HIS HANDS IN THE AIR. These two reports differ from the original narrative that LaVoy was shot with his hands over his head. Reports by Melvin Lee and Mark McConnell. These are not eye witness claims, but are worth listening to for the different perspectives.”

  • tkelly67

    I cannot speak to what really happened here but from what I’ve read about this case and the Bundy case, the BLM is engaged in a thinly veiled plunder operation for corporate interests. They steal property under the color of law and award it to their corporate masters. That is what corporatism is all about. And please spare me any lectures about the following the law, BATF and FBI are lawless agencies. They have no credibility.

    • jy kelly

      Truest point of the day…

  • Tom Robertson

    According to his video, Mark McConnell was driving the car that Ammon Bundy was in.

  • Fignewton

    From what I can recall from the past, the first incident of this kind occurred when the FBI set an ambush for Bonnie and Clyde. The Ambush had no intention of leaving survivors to tell the tale, so it is only from the police account, and the picture taken later of the car the couple was in, that we can see the magnitude of what the Government will do to eliminate people they consider to be dangerous! Were they right to execute Bonnie and Clyde? I don’t know I was not there, but it would have seemed more law like if they had simply shot to disable the car, and force the pair to surrender. Perhaps it would have ended the same way no matter what they tried, but what we do learn from this episode is that the FBI is not, has not, and never will be above the outright ambush and murder of people they consider to be armed and dangerous! There had been incidents in Chicago and elsewhere, in which people murdered other people in various ambush tactics but they were all attributed to members of various gangs. Who really knows if the FBI agents may or may not have been a part of or a complete gang themselves? Surely not me. Waco, was not an ambush, it was simply a mass murder by members of the ATF and the FBI. No real reason for it, but they got impatient and angry and decided that they would risk the lives of the men women and children by attacking the compound. Most of the people they say were guilty of firearms violations were killed, burned alive actually, but to my knowledge there was no evidence found that these people had any illegal firearms or devices. But they are still dead, just the same. The debate is still going on in some places about the right or wrong of what happened. Again I was not there, but it does sound like it could have been managed better. Ruby Ridge, well that was just plain murder in an attempt to kill someone and actually killing someone else. Anyone but the Government Agents who committed such an act would still be in prison. Then we come to the standoff in Nevada. This one eventually ended peacefully in spite of those who called for the exact kind of violence that had been used before by the federal agents. So, now we are here trying to make sense of the stand off in Oregon. I don’t really know much about the history of the events, what I do know is based upon what I have read in the newspapers and the various news media that covered it online. It seems that an argument occurred over whether or not the rancher had the right to burn brush on the government land or not. Seems he did not, because he was arrested and tried and sentenced to jail time. Somewhere along the way he even told everyone that he and his son would surrender and go to jail. Then the Bundy group arrived and demanded that the charges be dropped. or something like that, I am sure there are a lot of you who know the particulars better than I do. Then it became an armed stand off much like the Nevada stand off at the Bundy ranch. The public seemed to be opposed to the occupation of the game refuge, the Indians seem to be opposed to it, the state seemed opposed to it, and of course the Federal Agents and the Government was opposed to it. It is amazing to me that these people were arrogant enough to drive around the area, attend meetings go to town etc. as if nothing was going on and they were not at risk. This was their big mistake! They were not well led, not well organized, and way to courageous to pull off what they were trying to do. It was inevitable that the FBI and any other law enforcement office in the area, would sooner or later cause a confrontation that would likely result in the death of someone or multiple someone’s! This is the FBI, Swat team logic. Swat Teams practice for a long time just hoping and waiting for the opportunity to go out and show their skills by killing someone. They do not show their skills by peacefully settling something, they only get their notoriety by killing someone. The FBI agents are just out there looking for a good excuse to murder someone, so the two work well with each other. I can support them circling wagons and laying siege to the occupied land, refusing to allow supplies in or out, cutting communication lines, shutting off power, water, and heat sources. Had they done this up front the occupation would have been short lived and the whole thing would have ended with arrests and that is about it. The problem for me occurs when they instead allow all communications, allow the occupiers to go and come as they wish, to get supplies or attend meetings to try to gain support for their cause. Especially when all the while they were allowing this free travel, they seem to have been planning to ambush the leaders at the first opportunity, to remove the head of the snake so to speak and cause the body to also die. Ambushes are always a bad idea, they forgot to kill everyone this time. So they have had to resort to buying eyewitness testimony, or threatening until the witness tells the story correctly! In other cases they simply say well that witness was not credible. They hid the automobiles involved from the press or the news would be full of photos showing the amount of damage, and giving credibility to one side or the other. I expect the whole incident to be swept under the carpet and no one ever finding out what really took place on the road that night. What we do know is that the FBI likes Ambushes, fires, and basically killing the suspects when ever they can. The obvious lesson they are trying to teach the people is that if you form a militia, or if you try to take over government property to protest something, like was done a lot in the 1960’s. But then again there was Kent State even then so shooting and killing has almost always been a part of their mode of operation! Their hope is to discourage anyone else from taking part in something like this, and breaking the back of the militias, and prevent them from becoming more powerful and potentially more dangerous than they are already. These group are a danger to the government, and the government would disband and destroy them if they can, by fair or foul means.
    What will happen next? I have no idea, but when the next one of these takes place, in my opinion the shooting will take place a lot sooner, and more of the suspects will be killed. If these things continue, the militias will get smarter, better armed and better organized, then the shooting will likely be automatic instead of discussing it first. I sure do hope I am ever so wrong about all of this. A civil war is something I don’t even like to contemplate let alone actually consider that it could be a possibility! We must somehow correct the mistakes we have made in our selection of leaders for our nation! If we don’t, I shudder at the possible consequences. May God have mercy and lead and guide us in doing the right thing!

  • Benjamin Durka

    Took them a few days to bring in the Flame Thrower Tanks they used at Waco….

  • William Urmson

    Well the Bundy Militia is finally on their way out. It’s been a hell of a month at the bird house. Cold, hungry, stinking, and surrounded by dildos. I think there was one bright spot in all this for the Bundy’s though. When that FBI bullet tore into Ryan Bundy’s arm his face finally straightened out for the first time in his life. Praise Jesus for another miracle~ WJU #OregonStandoff

    • Woody Page

      Shame…

  • T-Rex

    Mainstream Media tried to spin this story towards BIG GOVT, and the alternative media moves it back to its correct and factual position. Well done 21st century wires.

    • Michels

      Same ole, same ole. Here’s the problem with the Malheur, millions of young people, including those who grew up in rural America, think Black Lives was/is OK while this peaceful Protest of Malheur is stupid “because what good were they ever going to achieve by overthrowing a freaking cabin in a duck breeding habitat. The days of overpowering the government by militia went out the window went out the window when the use of a musket disappeared.” The quote is from my own son in our heated discussion over the events of today. The media directs the narrative for the Federal government. Unless there’s a massive event that takes out modern communication or these young clueless zombies wake up things like today are going to become more frequent. It’ll hit the fan long after I’m gone. If my sons and others like them refuse to wake up, I’ll just be looking down, shaking my head saying “I told you”.

  • Bill Darcy

    Don’t expect the persons arrested to get fair treatment. They need an Attorney with guts to defend them. That would be no Attorney in Oregon or Portland. Too bad Jerry Spence is not around.

    • Michels

      Gonna take a firm and attorneys with deep pockets and immune to Federal attacks.

  • SecludedCompound

    You guys are desperate to make these lunatics heroes. Guess what? You try to ram cops, you get shot. you try to advance armed on cops, you get shot.

    This poor confused yokel needed help, not a bunch of wingnuts telling him to get himself killed. Shame on you.

    • Michels

      But you can loot, assault, and destroy both public and private property if you’re with Black Lives or Occupy??

      • SecludedCompound

        Is it it at all interesting to you that you can’t differentiate 1) looters form protesters because they’re both black, and 2) protesters from looters from armed men that threaten then try to murder police?

      • SecludedCompound

        Also, does it at all bother your that this Russian Times funded article is not corroborated by anyone at the scene or any other source? Seems like you almost want to believe made up things in this case. Hm.

      • Angelo

        Little Georgie Sorrows’ $31 million (a drop in the bucket for him) put to effective use for him and his ilk.

  • Psychonaut23

    The story is simole. Some guys did not want to go back to work after the holidays like myself and millions of others and instead craved internet attention and play guns and wield white privilege like it has never been before. Who else but cowboy hat wearing dudes would feel free to LEAVE the occupied area and drive to airports and from town to town. ANY other group in history that did this would expect to be ambushed or outright stopped by authorities. As it is…the Feds showed restraint as these dudes put kids and others in danger to Red Herring their cause as a reason for my first statement……getting up to go to work in the middle of winter is just tooooooo hard.

  • Psychonaut23

    It is simple. Some guys though it was too hard to get up in the middle of winter and wimped out and wielded their While Privilege like it has ever been used before and put kids and other in danger. I play RPG games and if you are holding a site away from a force…driving around to airports and other towns is asking your opponent to nab you. In the real world….that is White Privilege and the Feds showing restraint for almost a month.

    • dunkonyerhed

      You really need a better education. There was no white privilege here (the term itself is really invalid). These were people who had been pushed around by the Federal government for too long and they took action. I don’t necessarily condone that action but I understand it. Please refrain from making comments on issues for which you have zero understanding.

      • Psychonaut23

        Give me a story where people did a similar thing and regularly left the held location and returned, openly I might add. I am not the first to mention that other groups would not be allowed to do the holding of a location much less the egress to and fro.

        • Michels

          Occupy was free to come and go, glorified by the media and Administration

          • Psychonaut23

            Were pepper sprayed, many arrested. I am pretty sure cell phones are not guns either.

          • Michels

            knives and broken bottles are and Occupy’rs issued threats of physical harm to police and others

          • Psychonaut23

            Which group had a better reason? I suppose you like living under oppression from the 1% defending them so much. Lets see. wealth distribution vs degradation of pure wilderness. Mericans could use less red meat in their diets. Oh yeah…your freedom to get heart disease and strain the healthcare as profit model.

          • Michels

            There is no judgement, except yours, regarding peaceful protest of government intrusion, oppression, and persecution.

          • Michels
  • Michels

    Reports of martial law in Burns tonight. Military has locked Burns down and has said that they will be shutting off landline and cell phone service

  • Michels

  • Mike Lashewitz

    I said the media would lie, I said the FBI would lie. They did.
    Do I need to remind everyone how they lied about 21 of 25 FBI “terrorist attacks” they claim to have prevented, only to learn they also set up those supposed terrorists through entrapment. They financed the fools and provided materials, then busted them to take credit for “foiling terrorists”…
    Your so called war on terror.

    • Michels

      it’s easier to fake it than actually work

  • colinjames71

    I find it suspicious that Ratzheimer left just one day before. I had heard he was possibly an agent provacateur or govt insider of some kind. Could be coincidence. I don’t like him either way, and I’m no fan of the Bundys or really in favor of this whole protest or whatever you call it. Of course my dislike and distrust of the govt is on a whole different level. I also find it odd they killed what may have been the most rational, likeable, soft spoken person by descriptions of him. RIP Lavoy, my heart goes out to his family. Eleven kids.

    Of course as time and events go in we get father and father from the reason for all this in the first place, the family in Oregon and their persecution by the govt at every level. I have a feeling they will be forgotten to history, and all that will be remembered is a govt vs crazy gun nut militia people standoff. I pray there’s no more bloodshed

    • Michels

      Think he was. Everyone else was in two vehicles, headed to a meeting the Sheriff called, and he ended up turning himself in in AZ? Child protective services took all of the Lavoy kids away days ago. Now the media spin is that Lavoy had them for the Fed money they got paid.

      • colinjames71

        Right on thanks for the info.

  • Michels

    Just hours before some of the Patriots were stopped while en route to a town meeting in John Day, OR. As part of ongoing open dialogue with the FBI, Ammon asks for them to come out to the refuge so they can talk in person to reach a resolution.http://p4cf.com/index.php/2016/01/27/ammon-bundy-talks-with-fbi-asks-them-to-come-to-the-refuge-to-talk/

  • Michels
  • KCK

    For those who feel these people were ‘squatters’ or ‘terrorists’ trespassing on Federal land. You have no idea what you are talking about. Please, PLEASE watch the video from a Constitutional Attorney explaining what is REALLY going on in Oregon.

  • Michels

  • Michels

    Obviously White Rural People DON”T matter

  • Koolz

    Every Gov program is completely Satanic. It is controlled by the Gov which is controlled by the Hidden Hand the Elder of Zion.
    So we have the FBI(Satanists) and BLM(Gov Program) stealing someones land. Instead of the Satanists using there man power to stop say a gas leak in California they would instead try and murder US citizens and steal there land so they can have the resources. Let’s think of Microcosm and the Macrocosm.

    Buddy Land grab is small but it is same Crap as say going into Syria or Libya and destroying there country for Resources, or Ruining Africa. It just happens to be on a smaller scale.

  • Michels

    ALERT! From Ammon’s wife, Lisa: Ammon would not have called for the patriots to leave. We have lost a life but we are not backing down. He didn’t spill his blood in vein! Hold your ground… Ranchers come and stand! Committee of Safety come and stand! Militia come and stand

  • mia

    There is no more hope for America.

  • Michels

    To understand how American men have become more like silent puppies than roaring lions, we must understand the strategy of evil throughout history. http://kirkcameron.com/man-up-restoring-leadership-liberty/

  • Michels

    This is Oathkeepers pathetic statement. What a joke they are controlled by one man who is going to pick the “right time” to defend citizens. https://www.oathkeepers.org/pacific-patriots-network-official-statement-for-immediate-release/#comment-65921

    • ukalally

      the head the phony oath keepers is a jew. need I say more?

  • Michels

    Bundy Ranch issues call https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/posts/951803264896482
    ALERT! From Ammon’s wife, Lisa: Ammon would not have called for the patriots to leave. We have lost a life but we are not backing down. He didn’t spill his blood in vain! Hold your ground… Ranchers come and stand! Committee of Safety come and stand! Militia come and stand!

  • Michels

    Everyone should read this ASAP and especially those of you who believe Mark’s comments-http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/27/the-ambush-and-murder-of-robert-lavoy-finicum/

  • http://www.saoirsefinn.wordpress.com Saoirse

    Mark McConnell wasn’t arrested, was far away from the lead vehicle and seems to be very sympathetic with Law Enforcement in his statements about what LaVoy did. I don’t trust him at all.

  • Angelo

    Of course it’s known that there’s been infiltration from day one, but here’s a conversation Vinny Eastwood has with Thomas Lacouvara Stewart supplying details

  • Michels
  • wally63

    FBI murderer-sniper Lon Horiuchi was probably on duty to murder these guys like he murdered Vicky Weaver and no telling how many Branch Davidians. I guess he’s P.O.’d he only got to shoot one Brave Man. Lon is a COWARD and I hope he rots in Hell. As well as whomever else murdered Lavoy.

    • Just

      I read that Lavoy Finicum’s last words were, “Oh man! I just got shot in the weiner!

      • wally63

        Just, you are likely a back shooter FBI coward. Is your real name Lon Horiouchi? Bet so.

        • Just

          Bet not.

  • wally63

    These guys are TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOTS along with Jefferson, Washington, Revere, Henry, Hancock, Adams, Franklin, and many many more true heroes.

    • Just

      I just checked and learned that they were American doofusses!

      • wally63

        Did somebody fart? Oh, Just, that was you. My bad. You may leave now.

        • Just

          You got it!

    • Life’sABitch

      Yup….just like the originals that stole the land from the Natives, these bungholes also stole land….from the American taxpayers. TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOTS alright. Maybe they will come steal your land next…if you actually own any.

      • wally63

        Nope, the thieves and tyrants are the federal thugs such as the BLM that do the land grabbing. They are joined by the FBI to do their murdering and thuggery. Seems to be a team effort to destroy the Constitution that our Great Founding Fathers setup. All courtesy of the Khazarian Rothschild Mafia who run things nowadays.

      • TJ2000

        Entitlement in this country runs WAY too strong. Just because a state joins the “union of states” doesn’t waiver their land rights out to the rest of you. It is UN-Constitutional to steal state land – These protesters wanted that land returned to the state.

  • lovesliberalnews

    What a #$%^ Joke of an article. While I am not a CNN fan, check out this article. The entire thing was filmed by SWAT officers. Can’t wait until they release the footage to show you crazy militia loving A##holes don’t have a F#$%ing Clue

    • wally63

      The lady doth protest a bit much, methinks.

    • Just

      Oh, we WILL know the truth, and the TRUTH will be what WE say it it’s is? LAYVOY FINICUN WAS A TRUE AMERCAN PATROIT! REST IN PEAVE!

      • Life’sABitch

        Good riddance to the POS. Too bad the rest of the chickenshits didn’t get his same fate.

      • Lawrence Redmacher

        the truth is lavoy was reaching for something in his waistband when he was shot, either for a weapon or pretending to have a weapon because he wanted to get shot. video: https://youtu.be/aAGxDWKrjPQ

        • Just

          Wow, what a fool! He died for absolutely NOTHING, and that makes him not just a fool but a DAMN FOOL. And, yeah he was definitely reaching for that giant Colt 45 on his side.

  • Michels

    Hopefully most Native Americans have keep their knife/hatchet skills. Looks like they may need them again soon. Tribal Treason: Are Native American Reservations Future Terror Training Grounds?

    Article reposted with permission from NorthWest Liberty News, the opinions and views shared do not necessarily reflect the views of The Washington Standard.For those of you who would like to be brought up to speed on the battle we face here in Montana, I have included a link to a micro-documentary that I produced some time last year. I have reached out to Mr. Kogan and he should be a guest on NorthWest Liberty News radio soon. That includes the possibility that Turkey seeks “access to the uranium deposits and bountiful water sources surrounding the Flathead Reservation for production of yellowcake capable of later conversion to a gaseous state for eventual use in incendiary devices,” it goes on. “It would appear that this setting would provide Turkey and such organizations with the opportunity to more freely promote their brand of Islam on reservations and/or to pursue other potentially more dangerous activities,” the complaint states.Court documents filed by Kogan suggest the nation of Turkey has sought to invest in Native American tribes because the 2009 Homeless Emergency Assistance and Rapid Transition to Housing Act makes Indian reservations “largely off-limits to federal and state regulatory and law enforcement authorities.”Recently, Larry was interviewed by Patrick Wood concerning these matters and more. I have included a link to the audio below, but I wanted to pull out an excerpt as a preview for you first:Attorney Larry Kogan has been a friend of the Constitution, and a friend of Montana. Mr. Kogan has worked tirelessly to assist the people of Montana in their battle against the Federal Government via their proxy, the Native American tribes.One thing that people need to keep in mind is that Native American reservations are considered sovereign nations and DO NOT fall under the jurisdiction of the state or federal constitutions, meaning that they can strike a deal with any nation in the world, even nations that are considered enemies of America. Oh, did I mention that all of this is funded by you and me?A potentially very disturbing scenario is unfolding across Native American reservations in the Western United States, and, if successful, will likely be the model implemented throughout America. I’m speaking about the potential of a “Trojan Horse” scenario where countries who may sponsor terror can establish a foothold, legally, right on American soil via the numerous existing Native American reservations. If you think this notion is a silly one, keep in mind that the government of Turkey invited 17 federally recognized Native American Tribes to Turkey for negotiations in 2010.The nation of Turkey, underground Uranium and terrorist training centers could soon mark the future of Native American reservations.  Facebook  Twitter  Pinterest  Google+ Shares2 The Washington Standard /  January 27, 2016 /  78

    • Just

      Whew! Let’s hope so because that would be cool. It would be like a Lou Diamond Phillips movie starring Nicholas Cage as Lone Wolf Wolfman!

  • Vern Johnson

    Not a one of these morons is from Oregon nor is involved in any ranching or agriculture business in this state so why in the hell do they come here to stage their idiotic little protest? Whoever Lavoy FInicum is too bad he gave up his life for such an idiotic stunt. I hope these goofballs NEVER step foot in Oregon again.

    • Ben William

      Wrong on ranching.

      • Vern Johnson

        In January all the stockmen in Oregon I’ve known all my life are at their home places feeding cattle and doing income taxes–apparently these knuckleheads are either so wealthy they dont have to work or they dont have anything to do so they pull attention seeking stunts like this. Nobody in Oregon gives a fuck about these people and from now on they should find something productive to do instead of running around the country waving guns around.

        • Ben William

          The Bundy’s ARE ranchers when the federal government isn’t screwing with their grazing RIGHTS. The Hammonds who were not apart of this, can NOT ranch on their own land because there BLM completely mismanaged the land next to theirs and are the VICTIMS of the BLM reckless brushfires and glaringly corrupt court Tomfoolery.

          The issues of ranchers in the crosshairs of the US federal government are much more involved than simple taxation issues. These issues involve US mismanagement of debt and the federal government UNCONSTITUTIONALLY seizing of OTHER PEOPLES LAND to levy that debt. (As seen in Nevada) The US founders made it an unconstitutional act for the federal government to seize land for this reason. Another issue, is the implementation of the UN’s Agenda 21 (now rebranded as ‘Agenda 2030). Where the oligarchs that have taken over countries governments will not allow out right ownership of land. Which, is also unconstitutional in the United States.

  • John Bethke

    Stupid people that do stupid things should be prepared for the consequences of their actions! We don’t need to strip mine our national parks and wildlife refuges to get out of debt! What we need to do is start making the rich pay taxes like the rest of us! Tea baggers like this are not heroes! They’re just common low life criminals!

    • TJ2000

      I love these simple minded theories that think charging the rich people money is going to make any difference at all. They got rich by being in a position to take from the people in the first place; whatever the people charges them just gets rubbed off on themselves.

      It’ll never change until people address the real problem of how those greedy rich got into the “position” of leveraging the market unfairly in the first place.

  • John C Carleton

    Given, the feds stole the land from the states in the west. thats a fact. (To understand this a person has to turn off the TV and actually read documents from that time). I question their judgement, but people from the state told the federal government we want our stolen land back. The feds said, o yeah, what say we just murder you?

  • wally63

    The Feds have placed themselves ABOVE the law and routinely get away with murder and mayhem (Ruby Ridge-Waco). The FBI planned and monitored the Boston Fake-A-Thon drill and setup the Tsarnaev Brothers for TWO YEARS to be their patsies at the Fake-A-Thon so they could murder them and pin the phony bombing on them to create terror (using dozens of crisis actors) which is nonexistent here in the USA. The Feds are FORCED to create TERROR (such as 9-11 that could only have happened with gov’t cooperation and stand down) to justify their police state and you are dumb enough to believe it. You are being lied to and urinated upon on a daily basis and the feds are telling you, “Enjoy, it’s just a warm Summer’s rain shower!” And you love the golden shower by your masters. Better get ready for those “brown” hailstones coming next. haha

  • Maxx Headroom

    It’s sad that this happened, but all too predictable. For supposedly being a militia, they should have known what to expect from other USSA events, i.e., Waco, etc. They took the bait and went willingly into the trap. When he moved the vehicle after the stop, he gave them a perfect excuse “aggression towards law enforcement, blah, blah, blah, etc.” for them to open up and unleash several rounds into him. The USSA thugs were hoping for just a confrontation like that to eliminate a prominent figure in this issue, and thus, send a message to other militia, constitutionalists, etc., that this is what will happen to others who try this. This should be a lesson to others on how to act, and how not to act, with the thugs of Amerika.

  • SocraticGadfly

    Wow, what a conspiracy thinking site. First, McConnell saw Finicum flee arrest, even if he didn’t see the shooting.

    That said, unless the second stop was 20 miles away, he surely heard Finicum’s shooting, and would know whether it was 120 shots, or far less.

    That said, even if it was 120 shots, as McConnell noted, Finicum had laready fled arrest.

  • Bob Wynne

    Let me get this straight. Law enforcement has been encouraging these folks to leave the federal facility and telling people that they could go. While they were driving out they were stopped and shot. Everyone pile on and tell me which of those two statements is untrue (or both).

  • elitephpcoder

    They should have just burnt the wild life center to the ground. And they could have easily started massive wildfires on federal land without being caught. See their strategy was flawed in the belief that fellow Americans would stand with them. I think their cause is laughable to a certain extent, when everyone is addicted to sugar which is killing 1/3 of the population. The food industry and fake food is literally killing everyone unless you have enough money to feed a family REAL FOOD. If they were taking a stand against the FDA, the food industry and big pharma, I would have drove there to support them myself because the cause would be saving other people’s lives. Another 20->30 million Americans in the next 10 years will come down with a whole myriad of autoimmune diseases, simply from drinking a single 20oz dr pepper a day and eating food from wal-mart. Any thing in a box = suicide. It won’t be the collapse of the dollar that destroys this country it will be half of the population sick and in the process of dying from eating American made food. Wheat + Sugar = Death.

    • TJ2000

      Your very mixed up; The Hammond’s owned the land – they burned the outer edge to keep a forest fire from burning up their home and property. Which they were charged with terrorism for doing by the court – then protested by the Bundy’s demanding federal invasion into state land is UN-Constitutional.

  • Kevin Farnsworth

    News Flash! The 18 year old lied! Multiple witnesses including Shawna Cox (she was in the truck) confirmed that Finicum was carrying his side arm and reached for it before he was shot.

    • TJ2000

      Please show your source; stating something means about as much in this situation as turds in the toilet :)

      • Kevin Farnsworth
        • TJ2000

          Which references CNN as its source which references, “That’s when, ***authorities say***, Finicum reached down toward his waistband where he had a gun”

          “The shooting was captured on camera by the SWAT team. FBI and Oregon
          police officials are discussing possibly releasing the video”

          That would be nice.

        • varlog

          You just referencing stories that quote the feds. Of course they have a different story. That’s was what this article is about, and eyewitness who isn’t law enforcement has a different story.

          And on top of that, your using the msm for a reference. cnn and washington post? Got something more believable?

      • Lawrence Redmacher

        how about the actual video as a source?

        • TJ2000

          OMG; I don’t mean to be sceptical but look closely. 9:19. He walks out arm out a man on his right is firing, he’s waddling in the snow probably in pain the other one behind the tree comes out must of shot multiple times. I definitely conclude an ambush over some strange plot he’s wondering around looking for a gun stumbling in the snow.

          • Lawrence Redmacher

            he walks out arms up, then reaches in his waistband, then gets shot down

          • TJ2000

            I don’t know; I’ve never seen someone stumbling around in the snow so clumsily like that trying to reach for a weapon unless they’ve already taken a bulltet.

          • TJ2000

            Ya; that’s probably right. I watched it about 80 times over and over again. It certainly appears he is struggling to pull a side gun but sure doesn’t seem to get anywhere.

  • TJ2000

    I’d suggest you all call your U.S. Senators and Representatives and get Congress to return the land they stold to their respective states.

  • TheTruth

    According to eyewitness Victoria Sharp, 18 yrs old from Lakeside, Montana – who was in the same truck with Arizona rancher Robert ‘Lavoy’ Finicum, Ryan Bundy, Ryan Payne and Shawna Cox …Sharp confirmed that the passengers never drew weapons and attempted to get out of their vehicles before federal agents fired “at least 120 shots altogether” at the vehicle carrying her party. Numerous ‘red dots’ from lasers could be seen pointed on the passengers by federal marksmen, in what was described by this witness as an “ambush” by federal authorities. Sharps said, “I had 20 lasers on me when I got out of the car.”

    By her own admission, at least 20 “red dots”, 120 shots and only 1 person was killed? That right there is a huge red flag. Bet she changes her story when she’s called to the stand to testify.

  • messianicdruid

    Where and when will LaVoy’s funeral be held. 100, 000 need to attend, unarmed.

  • Lawrence Redmacher

    btw the fbi just released the video. his hands were clearly not in the air but reaching in his waistband. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

  • Shawn Cicero

    This horrible article and idiots are going to go help are going to die over idiots.

  • Ty Anderson

    Victoria Sharp, of the Sharp Family Singers was in the car when LaVoy Finicum was assassinated by Federal mercenaries.

    The media cannot spin this with this eyewitness testimony.

    • TJ2000

      I often wonder if the person coming around the back of the truck didn’t shoot him (can’t tell from the video); after which he starts to reach for a weapon and/or grab in pain. I’ve never seen someone wobble so clumsily around like that in the middle of a stand off unless they’d already been hit.

  • WeAreYourGods

    Seems obvious now that little Victoria Sharp’s account is complete BS. Teenagers eh?

  • Vernon

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUzzrjBo_HU it really does look like they just started gunning him down the minute he got out

    • TJ2000

      Oh yeah; go really supper slow around 0:05 where the video gets blurry; you can see the ring of fire come off the guys gun coming around the truck. I’m no expert but I certainly wouldn’t rule out that guy on the bottom of the video coming forward shot him with his hands in the air and all the rest just comes about later after that first shot.

      • Vernon

        https://www.facebook.com/terry.harris.77770194/videos/1026602154094824/?pnref=story It gets better when we corroborate the story versus the film, ryan never got out of the truck yet was shot , when? and yeah id speed off too if the opened fire after we stopped

      • Vernon

        Hillary ordered them murdered, see shed been getting paid from Arm uranium who wanted the areas uranium ore , 17 million tons valued at 17 trillion dollars, she received hundreds of millions a month from her clinton organization to this end, Arms subsidiary Uranium One from Kazakstan got the area lease, so now the famers need to die because that bitch is a murderous evil cunt

  • Preston Morimondo

    What is with you people? Yes, his hands were in the air before he got shot. That is, until he clearly reached down and put his hand into his jacket. You can’t make the video footage change by lying about it. Most of what Sharp describes never happened.

  • Vernon
  • Tish

    U.S.Govt. is out of control & has been since the 1st tyrant (Lincoln)ignored the Constitution by Illegally chipping away at States Rights..He was the sole Reason the Posse Comititus Act had to be enacted…Northern.Troops raped, murdered,looted,burned and were quite happy to occupy the Southern States..Its a miracle there wasn’t a 2nd civil war. I won’t get into details regarding now tyrannical Lincoln was ..anyone can look up his quotes regarding blacks…Hint—they.were.quite derogatory….The point is how much “We the People”have lost since those days, and continue to lose with each succesive regime..It became obvious under Bush and Obama doesnt hide his views whatsoever..except for the back room deals, Not allowing our Representatives to read treaties and of course them going along with it.. ….In fact since Ovomit, our chances of righting all the wrongs are getting slimmer and slimmer…We know how much the Feds respect citizens rights, its been in full view since Ruby Ridge,Waco,Bundys & now Oregon..Our only hope is that our milltary honors their oath and remembers that the Govt needs the consent of the governed in all it does.. in other words”We The People”

  • REE42

    Is “our” FBI now run by ISIS? JERKS! ! ! !

  • Teller of Truth

    By all means … help these guys …they are “true Americans”, fine examples of patriots.

    …’They’re coming to kill us’ !!! (oink oink!)

    http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/watch_remaining_occupiers_live.html#incart_maj-story-1

  • http://www.home.earthlink.net/~atdouble/~318thFighterGroupIndex.html Cammosutra

    Let’s repeal the Mining act of 1873. It is high time for profits corporations paid a fair price for minerals extracted from public lands. Right now, they pay a pittance and leave environmental messes that the public must pay to clean up. If it can even be done. Can we all agree on that?

  • Sam Atkinson

    Oregon and Washington people don’t want to give public land to a few ranchers, big oil drillers, pit miners and give our Forest away to any Bank, Country, Asian Power, or a few Tea Party crack pots.

    We like our Public lands, we like having access for hunting, fishing, camping and recreation. Why would we want to give that up for Tea Party Regan Economics? The Bundys just woke up your average environmental friendly recreationalist. We give a crap.

    PS East Oregon Counties are Welfare County’s , taxes from Liberal educated population pay for Harney County Roads, Schools, Welfare system, High unemployment, low wages and their Welfare burden. 20% are on food stamps, 18% unemployed. They are closing fire stations and reducing Police protection, in short broke. Now they want more welfare from the Government by giving Public lands to the KOCH brothers. Well excuse me… That’s not going to fix their problems without handouts from environmental friendly recreationalist in the Portland area….
    Now radical clowns want to change all that? Start supporting themselves? Create more jobs? Nope… just more handouts..To stupid to see the Jewel they have as a National Treasure. Lot of it should be Protected as National Heritage Lands, protecting Native Americans Cultural Sites.
    It’s going to keep even more environmental friendly recreationalist from spending money their and Promote better protection from ALEC and the KOCH brothers.

  • Laura Lee

    New fed conspiracy theory? Federal officers imagine a conspiracy to evade them when one is driving down the road in a free country? What’s wrong with these ppl? Conspiracy nuts (the federal officers)? I didn’t watch the vid. I’m quite skeptical of the “Bundys”. They always seemed FBI to me.. in so tight with Alex Jones. So, hard to say what’s real here. However, this concept that ppl don’t have a right to protest or drive down the road. Why were they stopped? And what is “conspiracy to evade federal officers” OR WHATEVER nonsense these are charged with? Has everyone forgotten this is a free country? The feds don’t have a right to harass people…and people have a right to protest and drive down the road.

  • http://www.home.earthlink.net/~atdouble/~318thFighterGroupIndex.html Cammosutra

    Can we all agree that the Mining Act of 1873 should be amended so miners pay a realistic royalty instead of the pittance they paid then and still pay today? And they have to clean up instead of sticking the tax payers?

    • Laura Lee

      My thought is this. It is a slave who calls himself a “tax payer”. The whole paradigm is slavery mentality here. And you see how socialism works. Convince people they are “tax payers” and part of a hive…and no one’s money or property is their own…and you have a slave population who enslaved themselves thinking they are “tax payers”.

  • Stacy Benghazimack

    murder! the federal gov murdered this man!

    • http://batman-news.com TruthFinder

      Don’t bother to watch the video or consider that Finicum said he’d rather die than spend time in jail. Just hang on to your conclusions without facts.

  • TJ2000

    How the West lost its land rights.

    1. The U.S. conquered the territory and residents joined the U.S. through State Enabling Acts

    http://archives.utah.gov/research/exhibits/Statehood/1894text.htm
    that state “disclaim right to all unappropriated lands”

    2. The U.S. under trust was to setup the state republic and extenquish those lands back
    to the state.

    http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/127/claims

    “to whom of right belonged the vacant territory appertaining to the crown at the time of the revolution, whether to the states, within whose charter territory it was situated, or to the Union in its federative capacity” was “a subject of long and ardent controversy, and…threatened to disturb the peace, if not to overthrow the government of the Union.” To avert a potential crisis, Madison successfully proposed that the Convention should be “neutral and fair” and “ought to go farther and declare that the claims of particular States also should not be affected.”

    3. The U.S. failed to extinquish those lands and held them hostage

    http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2013/HCR022.pdf
    “WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court has affirmed that the federal government must honor its trust obligation to extinguish title to the public lands for the sovereignty of the new state to be complete.” (pg 3 line 4)

  • Paul Prichard

    Lie after lie after lie after lie from the government and corporate news media.

    • http://batman-news.com TruthFinder

      Watch the video, Finicum clearly reached toward his chest twice and was daring law enforcement to shoot him. Given that he previously told the media that he’d rather die and spend time in a cell, this sounds like a clear case of suicide by cop.

  • WeAreYourGods

    120 rounds supposedly fired from less than 10 yards away and nobody in the vehicle was hit or killed…?

  • Joanie Kahl

    good glad we got the two sheriffs id’d please call then by name for our discussion ok….you do know that in a town primarily jobs being gov that the gov connections appointed david ward right while grant county’s was old fashioned elected…..the gov employed did not protest but the grumbling was real…ward was a former marine…and Mr Grasty oiled the appointment…okay to me that is very interesting….esp since Harry Reid went straight to Ward and Grasty when this event and then left with little to no contact with media or bundys or other town officials. Ok so moving on…………no sir the proof that backs up what I say can be found with the FB sites of witness to the arrangement krisanne hall…and calling directly or looking for their public statement sent out to the public outlining who they spoke with as did I whom you deny…so plz if you pick a fight with me I can support and it is open book. Your is not.

  • Radi8tor

    Anyone see Gran Torino? Genius move if this guy had no weapon, then egged the cops into shooting him and making a martyr of himself. I kinda doubt that is how it went down tho.

  • https://roycelerwick.wordpress.com/ Royce Lerwick

    And don’t forget the media not only still calls this a “shootout,” and a “traffic stop” when even the FBI’s own video shows an “ambush” and no shots at all being fired by the victim, but I keep hearing this sophisticated, obviously hovering, probably armed, data-masked drone footage as an “FBI airplane flying over the scene.” There’s also an almost 4 minute suppressed gap in the video after the truck is stopped, during which time the witnesses allege they were first fired upon. You can also see the window of the truck apparently being shot out and falling to the snow just before Finicum starts jigging around and furtively lowering his hands and reaching for his coat. And if you go back and look at older photos, you can see LaVoy carrying what could be a 9mm, possible a Beretta, in a horizontal-oriented shoulder holster under his left arm, not in a coat pocket, which would be a pretty stupid place to carry a firearm if you obviously had a shoulder rig for it, and really expected to produce it within a couple of minutes of needing it. https://roycelerwick.wordpress.com/2016/02/02/hands-up-dont-shoot-oregon-style/

  • Rowdy

    As I have posted several places, it would be very easy to tell if he was shot with his hands up because the bullet would have penetrated only the body of his jacket. If his hands were down the bullet would almost have to have passed through his sleeve first. Where is his coat? Where is his truck? Appears this truly is a cover up. An assassination.

  • Dr. Dan

    Vernon: Once again you have presented no facts whatsoever. Do you even know what the word conjecture means. All you’ve done so far is create an elaborate conspiracy theory around a common geologic report and supported it with circular logic.

    The fact that you’re hypersensitive to criticism is yet another tail tell sign of someone who has no interest in reality but rather is only interested in proving what they perceive to be reality.

    The fact is by your own comments you’ve proven to anyone reading this that you’re not open to accepting criticism or engaging in intellectual discourse but rather only interested in forcing people to accept your interpretations and points of view as fact. These are not the hallmarks of unbiased researchers seeking the truth, But rather the hallmarks of individuals with an agenda.

  • reggiec

    Finicum investigation:

    As a retired law enforcement officer I want the following to be made public as soon as possible. (Law enforcement actions and records of those actions ARE public records)

    1. The autopsy report that clearly shows how many times and where Mr. Funicum was struck by bullets. Was he shot in the areas he was shown to be grasping? Was a stolen gun planted on him?

    2. A complete description of all bullet strikes on both vehicles and a report on who fired the shots and the authorization for firing each shot.

    3. A release of all videos of the incident taken from any perspective including dash cams, body cams or hand held cameras.

    4. A shots fired report by every law enforcement that fired their weapon and the specific justification for doing so in each instance; especially the officer that moved from behind a vehicle took one shot and then moved back to his original position and appeared to be hiding the fact that he had fired.

    5. copies of both audio and written transcriptions of ALL radio or any other electronic communications by ALL agencies involved immediately leading up to, during and after Mr. Funicum was killed.
    ****
    If the above are not voluntarily released by the law enforcement agencies involved; a law suit or freedom of information act demand should be filed as soon as possible.

    If the above are not forthcoming; it can only be because there is something dreadfully unjustified with the whole incident.

    It is my opinion that the killing of Mr. Funicum does not meet the criteria for the use of deadly force. There were many guns trained on Mr. Funicum the moment he exited his vehicle. The video NEVER shows that Funicum had any kind of weapon in his hands. The use of deadly force requires that a person’s life or the life of others be in IMMEDIATE danger. With all the firepower directed at Mr. Funicum, deadly force was a slight trigger pull away.

    In my opinion deadly force in this instance would only be justified if Mr. Funicum had actually produced a weapon.

    In addition it appears to me that the so called “reaching for weapon movements” were in actuality involuntary flinches from bullet strikes. (See #1 above)

    If and I repeat IF; a forensic investigation proves that a shot or shots were fired at Mr. Funicum’s truck during the first stop without provocation, I believe that under those circumstances that a reasonable person would fear for his life and would be justified in attempting to “go around ” a road block.

    I also find it disturbing that law enforcement, according to others in the truck, fired as many rounds into the truck as they did (over 100) without any indication that the occupants were any immediate threat to them.

    If you watch the video closely you can see puffs of snow flying up along the passenger side of Mr. Finicum’s truck when the view is not obstructed by trees between the drone and the vehicle.

    There has never been any claim that anyone inside the truck displayed or fired any weapon from inside the truck. What is the justification for the shots fired at that time? Will the condition of Mr. Finicum’s truck as regards to how many bullet strikes it endured and where they hit be forthcoming? Who has possession of the truck at this time?

    If there is no justification for the shots fired at the truck it discredits any justification for the whole incident.
    ***
    Due to all the controversy surrounding this whole incident I believe that a thorough investigation needs to be conducted by some independent body that does not have a vested interest in the findings of any investigation.

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