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Hollywood and The CIA: A Dark Marriage Revealed

Jay Dyer
21st Century Wire

One of the more fanciful, or thought to be fanciful, topics I’ve been covering for a good while now is the subject of the relationship of the CIA to Hollywood. 

Recent blockbusters like Zero Dark Thirty and American Sniper focus on the military and intelligence agencies in supposed “based on true events” scenarios, but is more at work here?  The film industry has always loved tales of espionage, but in reality, the creation and manufacturing of a completely alternate reality and history is far more extensive than most would assume. 

While many films have nobly challenged assumptions about war in figures like Kubrick or Stone, for the most part, film has functioned as one of the most powerful forms of propaganda in the western establishment’s arsenal.


Watching some old G.I. Joe cartoon episodes for an upcoming analysis, I was not surprised to find Harvard psychological consultants as part of the production of the show, as reaching the youth with propaganda is central to creating cubicle dwelling automatons later in life. Likewise, researching this as a thesis topic was also instrumental in making these connections, as was the mass of information in Peter Levenda’s Sinister Forces trilogy. More recently, a plethora of news articles have surfaced that highlight this deep relationship, as this rabbit hole never ends.  The coalescing of intelligence agencies, secret societies and Hollywood in reality is more sensational than any incestuous cult a pulp crime fiction writer could dream up.

Rizzo-CIAAuthor John Rizzo has recently published a book titled, Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA, which is an amazing admission of this scandalous affair between intelligence and the film industry.  The L.A. Times comments:

“The CIA has long had a special relationship with the entertainment industry, devoting considerable attention to fostering relationships with Hollywood movers and shakers—studio executives, producers, directors, big-name actors,” John Rizzo, the former acting CIA general counsel, wrote in his new book, “Company Man: Thirty Years of Crisis and Controversy in the CIA….

The CIA also recruits actors to give more visibility to propaganda projects abroad, such as a documentary secretly produced by the agency, Rizzo said. And the agency sometimes takes advantage of the door-opening cachet that movie stars and other American celebrities enjoy. A star who met a world leader, for example, might be asked for details about that meeting.

The CIA has officials assigned full-time to the care and feeding of Hollywood assets, Rizzo wrote.  Other former CIA officials added that some of those operatives work in the Los Angeles office of an agency department called the National Resources Division, which recruits people in the U.S. to help America spy abroad.”

Britney’s infamous ‘monarch’ meltdown.

With that in mind, recent news regarding Brittney Spears may reveal much more than the headline suggests. Researchers have opined that “rehab” centers may actually be used for “programming” the “stars” for various mind-controlled objectives (as John Marks hints at in his Search for the Manchurian Candidate), whether as sex slaves, or spies, as Rizzo discusses. 

Author Dave McGowan has detailed the military and intelligence connections to Laurel Canyon, the home of the budding counter-culture rock movement in the 60s, which spawned acts like Frank Zappa and the Doors.  Military and intelligence connections thus come to the fore here with Brittney’s ex, who “coached her through rehab” being killed transporting “dignitaries” in Afghanistan – obviously an intelligence cover. Was Sundahl her helpful boyfriend, or was more at work here?

The notion of mind controlled sex slaves and DID/MPD actors and singers is something still far-fetched for the masses, yet more and more information supporting this idea continues to come forward. 

In regard to Lady Gaga and Amanda Bynes, I recently wrote:

“The potential for abuse here is quite obvious. In my old article, I also relate how the modern psychiatric “bible,” known as the DSM-V still cites Dr. Estabrooks’ old essay, showing the present establishment views all this as authentic, as well as a host of films that portray mind control themes.  In fact, it seems as if mind controlled assassins and alters is appearing in countless productions with increasing frequency.  Remember – it was Hollywood that was making films about MKULTRA before it was even known to the public as a real program, as we see in the 1962 The Manchurian Candidate.

With this direct Hollywood connection in mind, we can see the likely possibility of the abuse of pop stars, who become high-priced commodities for the same establishment.  I have written before about Candy Jones, and all the way up to the present, top stars are now alleging they were abused by their “handlers” and/or producers.  While some cases may be publicity stunts, it is hard to believe they all are.

News hounds will recall Amanda Bynes believing she was brainwashed and implanted with a microchip and Ke$ha recently suing for abuse by her “handler,” Dr. Luke, with Luke in turn counter-suing.  Prior to that, we have witnessed a barrage of news stories the last few years recounting a stream of victims alleging networks of sickos using and abusing those under them.  Let us not forget Penn State and Jerry Sandusky and Jimmy Savile of the UK, as well as a host of UK government officials.  Recent reports also arose from actors like Corey Feldman, who alleges similar crimes.”

Details surrounding the death of screenwriter Gary Devore (author of Raw Deal and Time Cop) killed in 1997 also made the news this week, with the production of a new documentary on his questionable death. 

The Daily Mail reveals that Devore was, in fact, working with the CIA, while the strange dating of the severed hands suggests a possible ritual connection:

“When the skeletal remains of Hollywood screenwriter Gary Devore were found strapped into his Ford Explorer submerged beneath the California Aqueduct in 1998 it brought an end to one of America’s most high-profile missing person cases.

The fact that Devore was on his way to deliver a film script that promised to explain the ‘real reason’ why the US invaded Panama, has long given rise to a slew of conspiracies surrounding the nature of his ‘accidental’ death.

It didn’t help that Devore’s hands were missing from the crash scene, along with the script, and that investigators could offer no plausible explanation as to how a car could leave the highway and end up in the position it was found a year after he disappeared.
Now the Daily Mail can exclusively reveal that Devore was working with the CIA in Panama and even a White House source concedes his mysterious death bears all the hallmarks of a cover-up.”

The concept of ritual murder is not foreign to Hollywood, when one recalls the Black Dhalia case, which I have discussed elsewhere. Hollywood is a kind of ‘Babylon’, as numerous researchers have suggested, and only with the advent of the Internet is becoming evident how close that nexus of CIA, underground mafia networks, occultists and intelligence agencies really is. It is a veritable threshold of the “gods” (little “g”), and gods often require a sacrifice – I wrote:

“That there is a dark side to Hollywood is generally known, given the numerous cases of bizarre deaths, yet the occult side is still lesser known.  In his section from Sinister Forces Vol. III on “Hollywood Babylon,” Levenda includes a snippet from comparative religion writer Mircea Eliade:  “Babylon was Bab-ilani, a “gate of the gods,” for it was there that the gods descended to earth….But it was always Babylon that is the scene of the connection between the earth and the lower regions, for the city had been built upon bab apsi, the “Gates of Apsu” – apsu designating the waters of chaos before the Creation.” (pg. 109)

And in Eliade’s, The Sacred and the Profane, he explains of the ancient conception of the threshold or gate, which is peculiarly applicable:

“A similar ritual function falls to the threshold of the human habitation, and it is for this reason that the threshold is an object of great importance.  Numerous rites accompany passing the domestic threshold – a bow, a prostration, a pious touch of the hand, and so on.  The threshold has its guardians – gods and spirits who forbid entrance both to human enemies and to demons and the power of pestilence.  It is on the threshold that sacrifices to the guardian divinities are offered.  Here too certain paleo-oriental cultures (Babylon, Egypt, Israel) situated the judgment place.  The threshold, the door show the solution of continuity in space immediately and concretely; hence their great religious importance, for they are symbols and at the same time vehicles passage from one space to another.” (pg. 25)

“Argo” is based on Mendez’ work.

In analyzing J.J. Abrams’ Alias, we saw this week that Jennifer Garner was recruited by the CIA to be a kind of PR front to sell recruitment as glamorous. A few days later, the Washington Post ran a revealing piece that coincides with my analysis, titled “Ex-spies Infiltrate Hollywood as Espionage TV Shows and Movies Multiply.”  The article treats the issue as if this is some new move, when readers of JaysAnalysis know this is nothing new, but a classic dark marriage that existed all along.   Consider the laughable irony here, as The Americans is a show about KGB infiltration of America, in the midst of an article about actual CIA usage of Hollywood (as propaganda), as the Post writes:

“Hollywood tends to be a destination spot for a lot of Washingtonians,” said David Nevins, the president of Showtime, which produces the spy juggernaut ‘Homeland.'”

“There was the ‘West Wing’ crowd of former politicos. I’ve met with more than one former Navy SEAL. And now, certainly the intelligence community has been the most recent in a long line of Washingtonians trying to come out and tell their stories.

Weisberg, whose show begins its third season on FX on Wednesday night, is perhaps the most successful of the CIA alumni who have infiltrated Hollywood. “The Americans,” about two deep-cover KGB operatives living in suburban Virginia in the 1980s, was ranked by many television critics as one of last year’s top 10 shows.

But Weisberg, who left the CIA in 1994, is hardly the only ex-agency guy trying to cash in on the spy show craze. (Spy shows, one executive at a major Hollywood talent agency observed, have become as ubiquitous as cop shows.) Former senior CIA officials Rodney Faraon and Henry “Hank” Crumpton are the executive producers of NBC’s “State of Affairs,” which stars Katherine Heigl as a CIA analyst and member of the agency’s presidential daily briefing team — one of Faraon’s old jobs.”

Jayne Mansfield with Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan, also met with a dark end.

Let us also not forget the role of Melissa Mahle, former CIA operative, in “coaching” and “advising” CFR member Angelina Jolie in her role as triple agent in SALT, the 2010 espionage thriller. The film itself was loosely based on Mahle, as the Telegraph reports, “Jolie’s role is based, loosely, on the experiences of Mahle and other spies.  ‘I was very impressed when I met Angelina,’ says Mahle. ‘She was very intent upon understanding not only what a real CIA officer was like but also the motivations behind our actions.”

Indeed, it is becoming more and more apparent that Hollywood really is the flip side of the CIA, when we think of Ben Affleck doing a film like, Argo, based around CIA operative Antonio Mendez, one of the Agency’s Masters of Disguise. Indeed, Affleck revealed Hollywood is “probably full of CIA” to the Guardian, in the wake of his film about the CIA staging a fake B movie shooting in Iran. 

As these revelations continue to leak, we can expect more evidence to confirm the kind of thesis Freeman puts forth in his following documentary on Anna Nicole Smith, where the extent of mind control connecting Hollywood and the dark side of the CIA may run far deeper than even I imagine, especially when we think of individuals like Sammy Davis Jr. and Jayne Mansfield, who were members of the Church of Satan, as well as a host of other celebrities who fancy dabbling in the occult – for example, here and here.  In fact, films like Eyes Wide Shut have revealed these very associations, and from the Black Dhalia to Mulholland Drive to Milla, these connections are real, especially when we understand films like Zero Dark Thirty are pure CIA propaganda fictions.


21WIRE contributor and author Jay Dyer is commentator on media, art, philosophy and culture. An earlier version of this article and many others, along with Jay’s podcast archive can be found on his blog Jay’s Analysis.

READ MORE HOLLYWOOD NEWS AT: 21st Century Wire Hollywood Files




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  • brandi

    jews jewing jewishly as the chosen serpent race children of satan

  • douglass davis

    I’ve been saying this for a while. Hollyweird which was founded by the CFR is nothing but an illusion and mind control. Druids,witches,occultist used to make their wands from the holly tree” and if you google muholland drive” “Dead man’s curve” an article from the daily mail you’ll see those hollyberries/halle berries all in hollywood hills.

    • geri

      Hollywood is Jewish, Founded by Jews and run, the Goy are their Puppets and most are Willing with their God Satan in charge An Empire Of Their Own: How The Jews Invented Hollywood
      An Empire Of Their Own: How The Jews Invented Hollywood

    • geri

      From the Jews out mouths Joel Stein and Abe Foxman,

      Jews Boast of Owning Hollywood—But Slam Gentiles Who Say the Same http://newobserveronline.com/jews-boast-of-owning-hollywood-but-slam-gentiles-who-say-the-same/ http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=828 Take Joel Stein, for example, columnist for the Los Angeles Times newspaper and regular contributor to Time magazine. In his column in the LA Times (Dec. 19, 2008), Stein says that Americans who think the Jews do not control Hollywood and the media are just plain “dumb.”

      “Jews totally run Hollywood.” Stein proudly admits. He then goes on to

      “Jews totally run Hollywood.”

      Joel Stein

      Los Angeles Times

      provide a long, long list of Hollywood media
      chieftains—all Jews!—to prove his point. On his list: Fox News President
      Peter Chernin; Paramount Pictures Chairman Brad Grey; Walt Disney CEO
      Robert Igor; Sony Pictures Chairman Michael Lynton; Warner Brothers
      Chairman Barry Meyer; CBS CEO Leslie Moonves; MGM Chairman Harry Sloan;
      and NBC/Universal Studios CEO Jeff Zucker.http://www.texemarrs.com/jews_own_hollywood.htm

  • anna miller

    It appears as if the Satanists/Luciferians are being outed big time. Mark Passio, a former satanist, and now dedicated teacher of truth, reveals the 3 major tenets of Satanism: self before anyone/anything else, that there is no truth, everything is relative, and solipsism He says that Satanists are in all walks of life, lawyers, doctors, journalists.religion,military,and that our culture is largely satanic. Observe all of the Americans who still worship these sick “celebrities”. Our minds are programmable, and can also be deprogrammed, once people wake up to the truth, which is all around us. Thanks 21st Century Wire, for staying on the case.

  • Sam Nelson

    I think we should be aggressively offended when we learn we in our childhood and children today are being brainwashed by what is advertised as entertainment for children. Because, we were brainwashed during our childhood by the entertainment industry in Hollywood, today we cannot identify the truth from a lie.
    How would the jews running the CIA and Hollywood like it if their children were educated through the medias to think jews were involved in the murder of tens of millions of innocent people WW2 to the present, oh, they were the murderers, these jews. So, such an education as that would not be entertainment or brainwashing it would be the truth.
    Jews cannot tolerate the truth so they teach our children lies, what a terrible thing this is and our leadership not only allows such horrific methodology, our leadership encourages it, for a few dollars more come campaign time.
    How can we clean house, so our children grow up understanding the truth and their own history truly, well, we should start with the jew fed leadership and the jew owned medias, get rid of these and the future is ours to share.
    We have documented proof of these occurrences, we know without a doubt we were brainwashed by the effects of Hollywood, the Medias, and the Politicians holding offices during our youth; we know nothing has changed until today, we know our children and their children are being programmed to accept despair and misery while jews and the leadership live the high life.
    We know in our heart’s, we must do something about this now, now before another generation of honest people, our children, are lost in endless and bloody wars. Each of us must think, what can I do to end this jew strangle hold on my country? What can I do to cleanse our Federal and Local Governments of the thieves and murderers who now occupy the offices of our government? What can I do to ensure my children have a valid, honest education, something real that they can use in their lives. How can I help the world today?
    All of the answers to the questions above are right in front of our faces, we just need to do them…

    • douglass davis

      The vatican/jesuits are at the top of their inverted pyramid.

  • James Godin

    Zero Dark Thirty was purely fictional since OBL died in 2001. American Sniper is the truth based on a book by a non-fictional person. Big difference.

  • abinico

    The NSA/CIA and the MSM have been connected at the groin since day one. This really isn’t new information, but it is always good to remind the American public how they are being played for fools.

  • AffinityNetNews

    I grew-up in the inner-Hollywood film community during the early 50’s-mid 60’s, before my family had to flee when I turned twelve years old to our family ranch in Colorado for fear for our lives if we remained in Santa Barbara, California.

    My parents were in media, and movie publicity working directly for major film stars that you have all seen in countless movies. Growing-up in Monticeto, California was like growing-up on a movie set. The biggest stars, producers, directors, writers, all had mansions in Monticeto or Hope Ranch in Santa Barbara.

    It would require a huge book to describe my life and experiences after an entire lifetime of being in film, TV and the music industry as a professional.

    It was like living in a beautiful horror film. The more beautiful it was, the more horrifying it became. There’s just no way to explain what it is like unless you have experienced it first-hand.

    Hollywood, is illusion within illusion that has absolutely no ending until people start dying. Then, and only then, do you find the cold-hard reality hidden deep behind the magic tragic curtain.

    I can’t even begin to describe what it was like growing-up in what appeared to be a perfect reality of unimaginable wealth, beauty, and movie-making. Then, I would spend much of my summers on our family cattle ranch in the breath-taking high mountains of Colorado that looked much like the movie set of Bonanza.

    Our ranch had been displayed on many magazine covers and Christmas post cards over the decades. I love it there but, as I began to get a little older I feared returning to our home in Santa Barbara, and back to the movie world that was our world.

    Even as a young boy, I sensed something terrifying under the surface about Hollywood, and our family connection to it. I began to live in total fear, and started having amazing spiritual experiences exposing the Satanic evil to me as a child, while telling me that I was, and always will be Divinely protected from this Satanic power IF, I didn’t consent to its authority over me of free-will.

    If you read my other very lengthy posts at other sites, you will learn of my later years starting-out as a fashion model in Dallas, Texas and then moving back to Hollywood to start my career as an actor in movies that was to begin with pilot film for the TV series ‘BattleStar Galactica’.

    ( go to my link and find the extended posts about what happened to me as I was leaving the Screen Actors Guild just prior to my meeting with the producers of BattleStar Galactica. It changed the course of my life and saved me once again.)

    But, I’m getting ahead of myself …

    I can’t expose names. However, think of the biggest film and TV stars of that period such as the original ‘Rat Pack’, they were the people my parents worked with and often for.

    I recall as a child spending many weekends in Vegas at the Pink Flamingo, watching Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra racing golf carts through the lobby, and all the wild private parties exclusive to Hollywood insiders that were never-ending.

    My mother’s close friend was ‘dis-appeared’ into the sex-slave underworld of Hollywood through a mental institution in Santa Barbara, California. My mother was warned by high-level authorities to leave California immediately or stop trying to find her friend or … else.

    I’ve never been able to learn the full story behind the dis-appearance of my mother’s friend but, I would learn later that it was directly involved with a powerful Satanic group in Santa Barbara.

    It should be noted that both Aleister Crowley, and Anton LaVey both lived in Santa Barbara.

    Leaving Santa Barbara, and the Hollywood movie industry, very likely saved our lives. I personally was a member of a very popular ‘Kid Band’ at that time, and we were scheduled to cut our first album with Capital Records several weeks after we left Santa Barbara.

    I suspect my life would have had a very different out-come had we stayed and had begun to record albums for Capital Records, knowing all that I would learn later when I began a long career in film and TV working with all the major studios in production and mostly promotion for world-wide first run features. I worked on some of the biggest block-buster films ever produced.

    It was at this time that I really saw first-hand the Satanic/CIA/MI6/Mossad/Vatican complete control of the movie and music industry. It was very awesome and intimidating to see the endless wealth, and power behind the veil of the micro-thin veneer of respectability that was Hollywood.

    Underneath that micro-thin veneer of respectability was a global porno industry being funded by endless CIA drug money funneled to the Jewish and Italian mob that controlled the porno film and publication industry.

    It was no secret. It was all out in the open. It was everywhere.

    I had many opportunities to delve deeper, and climb very high in film, TV, and the music industry working directly for Frank Sinatra, Jane Fonda and many others on countless projects that involved launching Orion Pictures, Laramar Films, and also, National Geographic Films, NOVA TV Series, MASH, the James Bond movies and many more.

    But, I always held-back, and openly refused to get too close. I saw what was happening to many around me who literally sold their soul to the inside power structure. Many never came-out alive.

    The money, beautiful women, drugs, and endless parties were everywhere in the industry. Coke was just then taking over Hollywood and NYC where the real Hollywood power was. Vast endless amounts of all the above were gushing into the industry in the early 80’s when I started working in promotion. It was in broad daylight for all the world to see.

    The police were all involved and on the take. It was all backed by the CIA, MI6, and Mossad who were everywhere running the drug-induced three-ring circus that never ends, and spits-out actors, models, singers, writers like a fighter spiting out teeth after a fight.

    Too many close friends and co-workers were literally partying themselves to death. During a promotion for a big movie, a friend was coked out of his mind and ran through a crowd partying, and jumped to his death off a 30 story Hotel balcony thinking he could fly. He plunged through the front windshield of a stretch-limo far below.

    That was it for me.

    I spent the next three months camping-out at a wilderness hot springs with my girlfriend in southern New Mexico, trying to come-down from living in NYC, the endless promo-parties, and being around all that decadence and pure Satanic evil that controls the entire movie industry.

    I received a phone call from Frank Sinatra’s people wanting me to comeback and work for Frank on some projects. I’m likely to be one of the few people to ever turn-down Frank Sinatra but, I did. I never went back into film.

    Not only has the industry not changed, it’s gotten far worse since I was in the big-show.

    If you are an aspiring young actor or singer … STAY AWAY FROM HOLLYWOOD and NYC !!!

    I know what you are thinking … Oh, but I’m different ! BULLSHIT !!! There are graves filled with those who also thought they were ‘different’ as well.

    If you are stupid enough to actually believe that, you are already doomed. I can’t even count how many people I saw while in the industry get destroyed by it.

    The Satanic power will devour you. Only by the grace of God did I survive and get the hell out, never to return.

    Only the insiders who can be mind-controlled and owned ever ‘make it’.

    I worked professionally in the music industry with huge stars, I worked in Broadway with huge stars, I worked in TV with huge stars, and I worked in film with huge stars.

    Hollywood is completely owned and controlled by Satanic power.

    However, if you remain on the lower rungs of the industry ladder as a common worker, chances are you will never be involved or see what I have seen. But, if you try and climb ever-higher and you are noticed, watch-out.


    I hope this helps.

    • douglass davis

      Hey man check out this video and let me know what do you think. I’m glad you got out of it alive. I met met a dude that worked in the film industry who worked with many of film companies,including speilberg who is a pedophile and while filming here in Michigan he tried to get me into inLUSTry. My conscious and the creator always pull me to the right direction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhMcvWpKBpg&spfreload=10

      • AffinityNetNews

        Yes, I’ve seen it. KJ did an excellent presentation on this video. You’ll see my very lengthy posts at this site.

    • ronupiwada ṣaaju ki o to ku

      Where are your posts? Can Ia sk you or anyone a question. Pop stars marry their handelrs right? Especially when the marriages are ‘secret’ or they are millioaires or billionaires? And when they have only just met, and then divorce. Is that not becaus ethey have benn paid for? I want toname a few that come to my attention: M Monroe was the first prime example and now: J Jackson, C Cole, M Brown, all of these people – these are not real marriages are they?

      • AffinityNetNews

        There are no set rules unless perhaps you are in the actual Satanic occult personally. I’ve never wanted or have had anything to do with Satanism or any type of occult nor will I ever.

        But, there are arranged marriages for whatever reasons. Mostly you hear rumors of such things going on. I left Hollywood years ago so, I’m not a good source for anything current.

        I saw enough evil in Hollywood and NYC, to last me several lifetimes, so I stay away from all of it, and live in my home state of Colorado as far from the madness as possible.

        Unless you are right there to witness most of it then, there’s no way to know what’s really going on in secret. However you know these terrible things are happening like all the sex slavery, and people being bought and sold into bondage. That’s actually pretty common knowledge because, it has been going on for decades.

        You must be invited by members of the occult to attend, and I never wanted to associate with such filth so, I never saw any of this myself. However, I had a few co-workers who said they saw things.

        I saw plenty of wild parties where you just knew these things were likely to be occurring on the side. That was at times rather obvious.

        I’m sorry I really can’t be more helpful.

        • ronupiwada ṣaaju ki o to ku

          Thanks Affin, but where are the other posts, i.e. If you read my other very lengthy posts at other sites,
          ( go to my link and find the extended posts about what happened to me as I was leaving the Screen Actors Guild …

          • AffinityNetNews

            Find me on YT. I no longer have my AFFINITYNETNEWS website the criminals of the de facto corporate-state have blocked it from the internet because, of what I have to expose. So type-in: AffinityNetNews on YOUTUBE and read my many posts over time.

  • Thomas Filmore

    Epstein’s Rabbit Hole: Mossad,MI6,KGB Spy,Sex Trafficking and Hollywood

    Bill Cosby Ain’t A Dirty Old Man: Cosby’s Lawyer Is Also Bryan Singers Lawyer

    The CIA/MK ULTRA program is an enormous American shadow government
    institution dedicated to mind control, mass population control, and
    force the masses to be completely submissive and subservient to a global
    satanic semi-divine master controller race. Since 1953, the MK ULTRA
    program has evolved into a far reaching vast multi-billion dollar
    conglomerate of high ranking government officials, military intelligence
    agencies, corporations, freemasons, lawyers, doctors, clinics, prisons
    and some of this country’s most esteemed universities and hospitals
    locked in multiple layers of iron clad blood oath secrecy and security.
    It has the footprints of the management style of Reichsfuhrer Heinrich
    Himmler’s SS Satanic Empire.


  • rwmhubbard

    You may be interested in this excellent interview of Steve Hodel, dated from April 2015